More Tonedexter Mic Questions

[ameadows]

I just ordered a Tonedexter which should be to me later this week. The two small diaphragm condenser mics that I know I have access to are the Aston Starlight and the Audix F9. Has anyone tried these mics before with the Tonedexter? Any reason to believe they won’t do the trick?

[buzzardwhiskey]

I've experimentally determined that a small diaphragm, ruler flat response is probably best. YMMV. You can certainly get a very workable map with others.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by buzzardwhiskey

I've experimentally determined that a small diaphragm, ruler flat response is probably best. YMMV. You can certainly get a very workable map with others.

Ruler-flat as in a measurement/RTA-type mic? Some of the ones that pros use for room-tuning are surprisingly inexpensive; the dbx is around $100.

[GuitarLuva]

I think it's fair to say that any instrument mic will be totally fine with Tonedexter. Can't speak for those 2 specifically that you mentioned. I have been using a Slate ML-2, which has a flat frequency response, and an Audix i5 for Tonedexter training and I actually prefer the cheaper Audix, not that the Slate is bad by any means. Playing around with different mic positions is key.

[SpruceTop]

I use the Shure SM81

[James May]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

Ruler-flat as in a measurement/RTA-type mic? Some of the ones that pros use for room-tuning are surprisingly inexpensive; the dbx is around $100.

Yes, these low cost measurement mics will work very well for training ToneDexter. The Dayton Audio EMM-6 and Behringer ECM8000 are less than $75.

The fact that they are omni means that you will get a slightly different representation of your instrument than you are used to with typical cardioids. You might like it better, as it is a bit more like what your ears hear.

Surprisingly perhaps, the fact that these measurement mics have a high level of self noise won't matter at all to ToneDexter's training. It'll train right through the noise because it is uncorrelated to the pickup signal. (That's the reason we can and sometimes do train ToneDexter under extreme conditions, like on the show floor at NAMM!)

[James May]

FYI, recordinghacks.com has a mic data base where many mics are cataloged. Many show frequency response curves. If someone asks about a mic, it's where I go to look for "flat".

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by ameadows

...Aston Starlight and the Audix F9. Has anyone tried these mics before with the Tonedexter? Any reason to believe they won’t do the trick?

I've used the Audix f9 on several instruments and it works well. I find the mids can be a bit "phasey" but I can usually get something useful with careful positioning and distance. The TD recognises and locks on to the signal quickly compared to some other mics.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by ameadows

…Any reason to believe they won’t do the trick?

Hi a-m

Any reason NOT to try them? Of course not…

I've tried my ToneDexter with each/all of my 'resident' condenser mics. It's an educational experience for sure. And my gigging partner and friend who also has one has been part of the experiment with his guitars too.

[ameadows]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi a-m

Any reason NOT to try them? Of course not…

I've tried my ToneDexter with each/all of my 'resident' condenser mics. It's an educational experience for sure. And my gigging partner and friend who also has one has been part of the experiment with his guitars too.

[/size]

Yep I'll definitely give them both a shot. What mics have turned out to be your favorites based on what you've tried so far?

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by ameadows

Yep I'll definitely give them both a shot. What mics have turned out to be your favorites based on what you've tried so far?

Hi a-m

My Shure KSM-44 on cardioid pattern or my AKG 414-TLII…at about 12-14" off the neck body joint (level with the fingerboard). These are both 1" large diaphragm mics.

Next I like my Peluso CEMC6 with the cardioid capsule from the same position/distance. My next to least favorite was the Rode NT3 (from any of the 3 recording distances/positions I've settled on).

Both the Rode and Peluso have 20mm capsules which I call medium diaphragm (as opposed to 26-28mm large diaphragms, or 10-15mm small diaphragm mics). Naming or describing capsule sizes is not the important thing, but how they sound in the end.

Interestingly, for doing sound recording of guitars, violins, cellos, and other medium body size instruments I gravitate toward my Peluso or Rode NT3 more often than the large diaphragm mics (which I usually reserve for voices).

But with the ToneDexter I prefer the end results of using the large diaphragm microphones so far.

My absolute least favorite is a Shure SM-57…from ANY position.

[ljguitar]

10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1

enough characters yet?

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

...My next to least favorite was the Rode NT3...

100% in keeping with my experience.

My absolute least favorite is a Shure SM-57…

100% not in keeping with my experience.

Which proves conclusively - it depends.

Happy hunting.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

100% in keeping with my experience.



100% not in keeping with my experience.

Which proves conclusively - it depends.

Happy hunting.

Hi sb

I think a fair amount of ToneDexter-talk (or any pickup system) is our EARS…right?

[shufflebeat]

Hi Larry

Agreed.

There are so many variables in the whole TD process from the training in either a well equipped studio or the back stage corridor, choice of mic, type of guitar/pickup, playing technique during training, mic position, gig conditions, band context, etc.

And then... one wo/man's "wow, sounds just like my guitar/fiddle"is another wo/man's "don't like it, how much is the Helix?"

It's a wonder we ever play music.