The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 01-17-2020, 07:53 AM
jaymarsch jaymarsch is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: North of the Golden Gate, South of the Redwoods, East of the Pacific and West of the Sierras
Posts: 7,070
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hermithollow View Post
It is important to monitor and regulate the relative humidity when building a guitar because that gives it some resilience to humidity fluctuations. A properly built instrument should be able to "live" in RH ranges from 30 to 80 percent without severe problems. If you check hourly RH changes you will find that it can vary by 50% points or more within a 24 hour period, and often does. Guitars survived for over a hundred years before central air and humidity control existed.
Because makers are building lightly built "responsive" guitars from less than well aged materials humidity control has become more of a concern. Another problem is with the modern heating of houses in the winter to warmer levels than formerly the RH can drop into the teens or single digits unless supplemental humidity is added.
Still, guitars should be able to handle RH levels from 30 to 80 percent without a problem, so ultra tight control of RH should not be a concern for the average owner.
Excellent post on the subject and it falls in line with my experience.

Best,
Jayne
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:36 AM
619TF 619TF is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 935
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neofolk View Post
Hi all. I'd like to ask: I've just rececntly bought an acoustic guitar and I've learned that I'm supposed keep an eye on humidity levels. So I bought a hygrometer. The levels are at about 40% now, sometimes a few points less. My question is how FAST it could hurt the acoustic guitar? I suppose it's meant rather in the long term? I'm gonna get a humidifier next week.
Thank you!
It'll be fine though 40% is on the low end of acceptable. Just keep it in the case when you're not playing it and store a humidification system within the case. Personally I use a drilled soap dish and a sponge but humidipacks seem popular on this forum as well. Purchasing a full room/home humidifier seems like overkill to me.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:56 AM
Chipotle Chipotle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 548
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neofolk View Post
My question is how FAST it could hurt the acoustic guitar? I suppose it's meant rather in the long term?
Since I didn't see this answered directly: days to weeks. It takes that much time for the moisture to evaporate out of the wood; a few hours in a dry environment won't destroy the guitar, probably even a day or two. Then, even if it starts to dry out and move, it doesn't necessarily crack or separate right away--if at all.

I used to not humidify, and have an HD-28 that never developed any cracks. However, the "fret sprout" from the fingerboard shrinking was annoying, if not actually dangerous to my fingers! Humidifying resolved that, so plenty of good reasons to do it even if your guitar doesn't spontaneously self-destruct.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-17-2020, 10:28 AM
Peepaw Peepaw is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 115
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 619TF View Post
It'll be fine though 40% is on the low end of acceptable. Just keep it in the case when you're not playing it and store a humidification system within the case. Personally I use a drilled soap dish and a sponge but humidipacks seem popular on this forum as well. Purchasing a full room/home humidifier seems like overkill to me.
I wouldn't call it overkill. During the winter months the humidity in my house will hang around 25-30% for long periods of time without a humidifier going.
With humidity up around 40-45% not only are my guitars healthier, so am I.

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-17-2020, 10:30 AM
619TF 619TF is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 935
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peepaw View Post
I wouldn't call it overkill. During the winter months the humidity in my house will hang around 25-30% for long periods of time without a humidifier going.
With humidity up around 40-45% not only are my guitars healthier, so am I.

Overkill to buy one just to keep the guitars healthy as that can be done in the case. For humans? Humidification may also be necessary though I didn't think that was very relevant to the post at hand.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-17-2020, 11:28 AM
O'Mahony O'Mahony is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Santa Barbara
Posts: 5
Default

Humidity is best reduced with refrigeration. Heating air (furnace) does not significantly reduce humidity through heat. Often repeated misconception.

Running a gas fired heater in cold weather may bring about humidity reduction by introduction of out-side air. This comes about either through outside furnace combustion air or a mixed portion of outside air at the return plenum by design. Or possibly through normal house venting as furnace runs.

Applications requiring tighter control for humidity in the hvac world is achieved by first refrigerating (dehumidify) the air stream and then add any desired re-heat followed by re-humidifying air stream to target level. This is all done in the air ducts. Respectfully, tim
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-17-2020, 11:35 AM
Peepaw Peepaw is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 115
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 619TF View Post
Overkill to buy one just to keep the guitars healthy as that can be done in the case. For humans? Humidification may also be necessary though I didn't think that was very relevant to the post at hand.
Relevant to me for sure.
Since I started keeping the humidity around 40-45% in my house the inside of my guitar cases don't need extra humidification. They stay right around the same. I trust that more than any in case humidifier for guitars.

Each to his own I guess.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:01 PM
Malcolm Kindnes Malcolm Kindnes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 915
Default

On the other hand the humidity is 92% where I am at the moment!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:21 PM
Ukulele_Eddie's Avatar
Ukulele_Eddie Ukulele_Eddie is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 285
Default

Here in Socal most of the time humidity indoors is in the 40-50% range and so in the good zone instruments. However, on a day with Santa Ana winds it can drop below 20% lickity-split. Shocking how quick it happens.

I keep an indoor humidifier in the living room and while I tend to have a guitar or two out at all times, the others are cased with Humidipaks.

I bought a few Sensorpush, so I can keep one out where the instruments that are out sit, one in the closet where the cased instruments, and one I can rotate among cases just for grins.
__________________
12-fret Small Body Addict: Wilborn "Inverse" Lion | Martin 0-28VS Custom & 00-17 1931 Authentic | Larrivee Parlor Custom | Collings 01W 12-fret | Blackbird Savoy | Beneteau 0-12 | Doerr Trinity Select Signature

Currently Listed for Sale: Collings 01W 12-fret
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-18-2020, 05:56 AM
Parlorman Parlorman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,545
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Mahony View Post
Humidity is best reduced with refrigeration. Heating air (furnace) does not significantly reduce humidity through heat. Often repeated misconception.

Running a gas fired heater in cold weather may bring about humidity reduction by introduction of out-side air. This comes about either through outside furnace combustion air or a mixed portion of outside air at the return plenum by design. Or possibly through normal house venting as furnace runs.

Applications requiring tighter control for humidity in the hvac world is achieved by first refrigerating (dehumidify) the air stream and then add any desired re-heat followed by re-humidifying air stream to target level. This is all done in the air ducts. Respectfully, tim
This is true, but sort of only half the story. Once the ambient air has been dried out by cold temperatures and then heated by whatever means, the relative humidity is reduced and itís low relative humidity that can damage wooden instruments as the moisture content in the wood seeks to equalize with the air.

Right now itís 9 degrees Fahrenheit outside with a relative humidity of 56%. Inside the house itís 70 degrees and the RH is a desert-like 22%. Thatís low enough to cause serious problems with some instruments left in those condition
for more than a day or two.

My guitars like in a temperature and humidity controlled display cabinet. Iíll leave ones that Iím playing out during the day but they go back in at night and for long term storage.
__________________
Bill

Guitars:

1910's Larson/Stetson 1 size guitar
1920's Larson/Stahl 00 size guitar
1920 Martin 1-28
1963 Gibson Hummingbird
1987 Martin Schoenberg Soloist
2014 Froggy Bottom L Deluxe Koa
2015 Rainsong P12
2017 Probett Rocket III
1993 Fender Stratocaster

Banjo: Stelling Golden Cross
Mandolin: Weber Bitterroot
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-18-2020, 06:08 AM
UncleJesse's Avatar
UncleJesse UncleJesse is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: STL
Posts: 971
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstaight View Post
I live on the edge of northern, north/central Indiana. Around Christmas we had temps pushing 60. Very odd. Usually in the 30's and dipping below 0.
It was 70 degrees here in St. Louis on Xmas day. I couldn't believe it. I grilled steaks.

As far as humidity, I've been very lucky here. This newer house keeps humidity very well. I rarely run a humidifier or dehumidifer (maybe a few weeks of each) and it stays between 40-55%.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-18-2020, 06:54 AM
musicman1951 musicman1951 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 2,637
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Mahony View Post
Humidity is best reduced with refrigeration. Heating air (furnace) does not significantly reduce humidity through heat. Often repeated misconception.

Running a gas fired heater in cold weather may bring about humidity reduction by introduction of out-side air. This comes about either through outside furnace combustion air or a mixed portion of outside air at the return plenum by design. Or possibly through normal house venting as furnace runs.

Applications requiring tighter control for humidity in the hvac world is achieved by first refrigerating (dehumidify) the air stream and then add any desired re-heat followed by re-humidifying air stream to target level. This is all done in the air ducts. Respectfully, tim
That may well be true - not my area of expertise.

But right now the outside humidity is 61% and the humidity in my room with the humidifier running 24/7 is 33%.

It no doubt depends on your heating system. Mine is baseboard hot water. My humidistat "seems" to be telling me that the furnace is cooking some humidity out of the air. That might not be the actual science, just what makes sense relative to my observations.
__________________
Keith
Martin 000-42 Marquis
Lowden S 50
Taylor Classical
Alvarez 12 String
Gibson ES345
Fender P-Bass
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-18-2020, 08:32 AM
rstaight rstaight is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 559
Default

We have had a strange winter so far. Temps have been consistently above freezing. We have also had a lot of rain.

The RH in the "guitar" room is presently 41%. Has not dropped below 40. I believe the highest it's been this winter was 54. We did have a humidifier installed on the furnace that is connected to the water line.

Last year I used the soap dish trick in the case. This year nothing. If I could find an inexpensive in case hygrometer I would experiment with one of the less expensive guitars to see what the in case humidifier really did for me.
__________________
2007 Indiana Scout
2018 Indiana Madison Quilt Elite
2018 Takamine GJ72CE 12-String
2019 Takamine GD93
1963 Gibson SG
2016 Kala uke
Dean A style mandolin. (Year unknown)
Lotus L80 (1984ish)
Plus a few lower end I have had for years
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=