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  #31  
Old 12-26-2019, 03:43 PM
Gitfiddlemann Gitfiddlemann is offline
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I think I've just found the sweet spot for pimamiami.
Excellent! It's similar to hitting the sweet spot on the club face. It feels effortless. (If you're not a golfer, forget about that analogy! )
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Correct me if I'm wrong but it should feel very similar to piami tremolo, correct?
Hmmm...not exactly. I think of tremolo as a different kind of beast altogether than an arpeggio.
Or maybe I'm not understanding how you mean that exactly.🤔
Quote:
And when I get a chance, I'll post a video of the bpm(s) I'm using.
That would be great!
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Andre

Golf is pretty simple. It's just not that easy.
- Paul Azinger

"It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so."
– Mark Twain

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  #32  
Old 12-30-2019, 07:15 AM
Su_H. Su_H. is offline
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Originally Posted by AndreF View Post
Excellent! It's similar to hitting the sweet spot on the club face. It feels effortless. (If you're not a golfer, forget about that analogy! )

Hmmm...not exactly. I think of tremolo as a different kind of beast altogether than an arpeggio.
Or maybe I'm not understanding how you mean that exactly.��

That would be great!
I thought I found the sweet spot but I was mistaken. Correcting my right hand has taken a toll on me. I'm going back to my normal position. It feels natural to me despite it looking disfigured. ....I don't remember if my right hand was twitching and or bouncing before the correction attempt but it doesn't seem to be doing so now that I've reverted back to my original position....and if it's still bouncing or twiching, it's very minimal. So I guess it wasn't all for nothing.

Bpms: My goal is 140bpm. I haven't actually clocked her, but it seems like Ana plays it around 170bpm plus or minus 10bpm.(according to my metronome setting)

Su
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  #33  
Old 12-31-2019, 08:02 PM
Su_H. Su_H. is offline
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Andre,

You are correct about the metronome setting. I clocked Ana and she is playing at 200 bpm according to my metronome setting. I don't know how to adjust my settings. I'm using a free metronome app.
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  #34  
Old 01-01-2020, 08:33 AM
Gitfiddlemann Gitfiddlemann is offline
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Originally Posted by Su_H. View Post
Andre,

You are correct about the metronome setting. I clocked Ana and she is playing at 200 bpm according to my metronome setting. I don't know how to adjust my settings. I'm using a free metronome app.
Hi Su,
In one of her live performances on YouTube I have her clocked at about 108 bpms at 3 clicks per measure, or 216 at 6 clicks per measure (which is how you seem to be counting it).
There was an interesting discussion about this topic in the Delcamp forum some years ago:
What is the real tempo of Asturias?
Some tidbits from that discussion:
The very fast Allegro tempo is meant more for pianists, so at a clip of 120 to 132 (3 clicks per measure). As you know, it was originally composed for the piano. Although some guitarists apparently) play it at that clip.
Segovia and John Williams set a trend by playing it slower (more like the tempo Ana plays it), and they set a good example by arguably wringing out more emotion from the guitar at that slower tempo.
Interestingly, there are no triplets in the piano score! so evidently, the triplets were added at some point in history in the guitar version, which probably explains the slower tempo favored by Williams (and Ana).
And get this: Some guitarists leave out the triplets altogether! which allows them to play it faster. More like 132 bpms( 3 clicks per bar). At that speed, dropping the triplets can hardly be noticed, so it can work.
Anyway, so much to learn!
Getting back to metronome settings:
If I get a moment I can perhaps post a video for you of the difference between 3 clicks per measure (100 bpm) and 6 clicks per measure (200 bpm), when played at the same speed.
That may help you to halve the amount of clicks, because having a metronome click away at > 140 is very annoying to the ear! (imo!)
Better to practice at slower metronome speeds for the same tempo!
__________________
Best regards,
Andre

Golf is pretty simple. It's just not that easy.
- Paul Azinger

"It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so."
– Mark Twain

http://www.youtube.com/user/Gitfiddlemann
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  #35  
Old 01-03-2020, 05:45 AM
Su_H. Su_H. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreF View Post
Hi Su,
In one of her live performances on YouTube I have her clocked at about 108 bpms at 3 clicks per measure, or 216 at 6 clicks per measure (which is how you seem to be counting it).
There was an interesting discussion about this topic in the Delcamp forum some years ago:
What is the real tempo of Asturias?
Some tidbits from that discussion:
The very fast Allegro tempo is meant more for pianists, so at a clip of 120 to 132 (3 clicks per measure). As you know, it was originally composed for the piano. Although some guitarists apparently) play it at that clip.
Segovia and John Williams set a trend by playing it slower (more like the tempo Ana plays it), and they set a good example by arguably wringing out more emotion from the guitar at that slower tempo.
Interestingly, there are no triplets in the piano score! so evidently, the triplets were added at some point in history in the guitar version, which probably explains the slower tempo favored by Williams (and Ana).
And get this: Some guitarists leave out the triplets altogether! which allows them to play it faster. More like 132 bpms( 3 clicks per bar). At that speed, dropping the triplets can hardly be noticed, so it can work.
Anyway, so much to learn!
Getting back to metronome settings:
If I get a moment I can perhaps post a video for you of the difference between 3 clicks per measure (100 bpm) and 6 clicks per measure (200 bpm), when played at the same speed.
That may help you to halve the amount of clicks, because having a metronome click away at > 140 is very annoying to the ear! (imo!)
Better to practice at slower metronome speeds for the same tempo!
Andre, thank you for insight on Austurias.

I still can't set my metronome to the setting you're talking about but I'm starting to practice with the triplets turned off....so it's 3 beats instead of 9 clicks.
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  #36  
Old 01-03-2020, 12:02 PM
Gitfiddlemann Gitfiddlemann is offline
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Hi Su,
Quote:
I still can't set my metronome to the setting you're talking about but I'm starting to practice with the triplets turned off....so it's 3 beats instead of 9 clicks.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "3 beats instead of 9 clicks".
Each click should fall on a beat. 3/4 time = 3 quarter note beats per measure = 3 clicks per measure.
Here is an excerpt from the music which I marked up.

If you want to get a feel for the tempo that Ana plays this at, just set your metronome at a tempo of 108. Each arrow represents a beat or click. I've also marked the counting*. If your metronome app can accent the first beat, all the better, but it's not necessary.
This is about as fast as anyone should play this piece with good articulation. Any faster, and the triplets start losing their "identity", unless you are really gifted at playing fast. Maybe some of the better flamenco players can get away with it.
Let me know if you have any questions.
(* At the end of the first measure the last "&" is a little too far to the right. It should actually line up with the note before it )
__________________
Best regards,
Andre

Golf is pretty simple. It's just not that easy.
- Paul Azinger

"It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so."
– Mark Twain

http://www.youtube.com/user/Gitfiddlemann
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  #37  
Old 01-03-2020, 04:08 PM
Su_H. Su_H. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreF View Post
Hi Su,

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "3 beats instead of 9 clicks".
Each click should fall on a beat. 3/4 time = 3 quarter note beats per measure = 3 clicks per measure.
Here is an excerpt from the music which I marked up.

If you want to get a feel for the tempo that Ana plays this at, just set your metronome at a tempo of 108. Each arrow represents a beat or click. I've also marked the counting*. If your metronome app can accent the first beat, all the better, but it's not necessary.
This is about as fast as anyone should play this piece with good articulation. Any faster, and the triplets start losing their "identity", unless you are really gifted at playing fast. Maybe some of the better flamenco players can get away with it.
Let me know if you have any questions.
(* At the end of the first measure the last "&" is a little too far to the right. It should actually line up with the note before it )
Get a mallet and hit me on the head. Lol. I haven't looked at the music score for the triplets in so long. I'm treating each bass note as a beat....so I have 6 beats with a total of 18 clicks.

You are recommending I play 2 sets of triplets per beat. I think I'm on board now.
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  #38  
Old 01-03-2020, 05:42 PM
Gitfiddlemann Gitfiddlemann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Su_H. View Post
You are recommending I play 2 sets of triplets per beat. I think I'm on board now.

That's why players like Ana Vidovic, whose triplets are clear as a Rocky Mountain stream, opt for "slower" than Allegro tempo for this piece. Even then, it's still a blistering pace at 108 bpm. And sounds beautiful. That's the real, and only, goal.
That's why I personally find this piece so difficult technically. Sure, the first sixteen measures can be handled relatively easily, even at 100 bpms. The problem is maintaining that tempo, cleanly, through the triplets. Those are the speed bumps that knock speed way down. A few of those measures are like crossing the Himalayas. Tempo is then based on getting through the most difficult passages cleanly. It's tough.
Hang in there. Isolate the most challenging measures for you and work on them individually, rather than going through the whole piece start to finish as best you can.
Eventually, you'll find that sweet spot that works best for you, and your listeners!
__________________
Best regards,
Andre

Golf is pretty simple. It's just not that easy.
- Paul Azinger

"It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so."
– Mark Twain

http://www.youtube.com/user/Gitfiddlemann
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  #39  
Old 01-05-2020, 06:20 AM
Su_H. Su_H. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreF View Post

That's why players like Ana Vidovic, whose triplets are clear as a Rocky Mountain stream, opt for "slower" than Allegro tempo for this piece. Even then, it's still a blistering pace at 108 bpm. And sounds beautiful. That's the real, and only, goal.
That's why I personally find this piece so difficult technically. Sure, the first sixteen measures can be handled relatively easily, even at 100 bpms. The problem is maintaining that tempo, cleanly, through the triplets. Those are the speed bumps that knock speed way down. A few of those measures are like crossing the Himalayas. Tempo is then based on getting through the most difficult passages cleanly. It's tough.
Hang in there. Isolate the most challenging measures for you and work on them individually, rather than going through the whole piece start to finish as best you can.
Eventually, you'll find that sweet spot that works best for you, and your listeners!
Thank you for the words of encouragement.

The most difficult aspect of this piece for me is the right hand triplets. My left hand is fairly solid but that's not to say it doesn't need improvement for this piece.

As far as Ana's tempo, I feel she plays it ridiculously fast. I've heard much slower versions compared to hers and they sound good for me. I'm not aiming for Ana's tempo. 70bpm or 140bpm (according to my setting) is triumphant for me and that would be my Mt. Everest.

I think you have helped me sort out my practice and laid the foundation for a successful attempt...and I hope the next time I put up a post in this thread, it would read, "Hey, Andre, I've done it. "

Andre, you've been an awesome guitar instructor. Thank you.

Jon, Norsepicker, and Rick, please don't think I have forgotten about you guys. All of you, including Andre, have helped to reconstruct my practice. Thank you.

Last edited by Su_H.; 01-05-2020 at 06:36 AM.
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