Looking for progress feedback for 49 yr old beginner

[heboil]

Hi everyone. I hope this is the right place to post this. I am just looking to gauge my progress and put my journey in perspective.

I am 49 years old and have never played music before (but always wanted to). I got my first guitar about four weeks ago (and have since exchanged it). I originally bought a Yamaha FG 800, and have since moved to a Seagull S6 Original. I don't have thick fingers, but I also don't have small hands and felt the Seagull just fit me better... so that is a positive. BTW, I also love the sound of this guitar.

So, less than a calendar month in, here is my progress:

• Taking Justin's online course
• Watching and trying a bunch of pieces from Marty's songs
• I can play A, Am, E, Em, C, G, D, F (some sound good... some not as good)
• Screwing around a little bit with 12-bar blues (beginner stuff)
• Strumming was bad at first, but I am getting the hang of a few patterns
• Fingers are callused and no longer hurting
• I play 5-10 minutes here and there... likely more than 20m/day if I added it up
• Chord progression struggles
• Can play and switch slowly (not in tempo)... but also sing to Take Me Home, Country Roads (hard to sing and play at this stage for me, but I can muddle my way through this one)
• Did I mention SLOW on chord changes?

So, for a middle-aged newbie, I feel I am doing OK. I am really enjoying it so far, but I am just reaching out to the masses to see what their progression was like (especially as someone that isn't a kid). My 19 yr old used to play bass in an elementary band and has had a guitar for the last 10 years but only started playing it less than a year ago. He is quite amazing at it already, and looking at his progress and my very slow progress in comparison may make the mountain I am climbing look even higher just because I really shouldn't be measuring my progress against his.

My biggest hurdle at the moment is moving from chord to chord. I am not very good at it. I can miss a beat or two and change fine enough, but not if I try and keep in tempo. When I put on the metronome in Google on my computer, I have to play around 65ish bpm to be able to keep tempo.

So, not looking to pack it in. Far from it. Just wondering how long it will likely take me get to a point where I can play simple beginner songs... WITHOUT the pauses .



Thanks all and very happy to be on this journey!

[mr. beaumont]

Sounds like youre on the right track.

At 10-20 minutes daily, I think if you keep at it, realistically, months to a year is reasonable for getting through some basic tunes without the train derailing.

Keep at it. Its the best hobby in the world. You never have an excuse to be bored again.

[rick-slo]

Welcome to the forum.

Listen to solo guitar pieces. Work on playing well complete actual pieces of music on the guitar. Naturally ramp up the difficulty of pieces over time.
Play musically. Don't get overly theoretical in the abstract.

[Aimelie]

If I may, I would encourage you to increase your concentrated practice time to 30 minutes. (After that, allow yourself some fun time noodling if your fingers aren’t already burned out.)

But, getting up to a solid half an hour should be doable and will be well worth it to progress and not feel frustrated.

[tbirdman]

I would recommend Justin beginners course, and he has a great practice schedule to help you starting out. The chord exercises which you practices the chord changes are great for getting up to speed. I found that his app was great to help getting start playing songs. You could the app from 4 chord is has more songs. 4 chords makes the Justine app so it's the same except more songs.

I would recommend to pick up the book Laws of Brainjo. Has a lot of information for a beginner. Justin also has some great videos for encouragement for beginners.

I just passed my 2 year anniversary. I've have gotten down deep into the proverbial music rabbit hole, but it's been fun. I'm now have 3 instructors including for the harp guitar, classical guitar, acoustic guitar, singing and piano.

After you will look back after 6 months and look at the things you had struggled as a piece of cake! Good luck!

[reeve21]

Hey heboil,

You are doing great, that is a lot of progress for 4 weeks at 20 minutes a day. It took me longer to get to that point and I was a lot younger. I think you will be playing some simple tunes in time pretty soon. And 2 good guitars in the first month, you will fit right in with this group

The only way to learn how to play and sing at the same time is practice it, no matter how bad it sounds. Once your strumming gets to be automatic it gets easier. Remember to move you hand up and down on every beat (or twice a beat depending on the tune/time signature) even if you are not hitting the strings on that up or downbeat.

If you can find a way to play an hour a day I think your progress will really grow. No substitute for time with the instrument in your hands.

Good job!

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Keep at it. Its the best hobby in the world. You never have an excuse to be bored again.

This! If you're ever bored practising the guitar, you're just practising the wrong things.

In fact, sometimes what you're doing wrong is just practising. Stop practising. Start playing. Playing is NEVER boring.

[Stonehauler]

47 here...and sounds like you are where I was at a year or so ago, so I would say right on track.

Couple of suggestions.
Plan out each chord change deliberately and place your fingers appropriately. You are working on building muscle memory (reflex), so you if are sloppy in your placement, you are going to have to unlearn the sloppy placements and get them to the correct positions. (I was sloppy and it cost be about 3-4 months to correct my placement) The reason I got sloppy was because I was trying to "beat the time" on Justin's chord change. Don't do what I did.

Work on some exercises. Do a two or three chord song slowed way down and make sure that your chord changes are flawless for the speed you are at. Only when you have it right should you speed up.

Being honest, I have just gotten to the point where I can play most non-barre chords without having to look at where my hands and fingers are (2 years after starting lessons). Of course, that's for chords I know. I am still learning new chords. For instance, I've just added Gmag7, G#Dim, and G6 this week. Can't play them worth squat without looking, but they are getting there. That mean I am spending more time looking at the music instead of my hands, and thus able to follow things a bit more.

The key is to get the basics down. G, C, D, E, A are good ones for open chords, and then Em. Am, Dm (that was hard for me at first) F is a bit tricker as it's a Barre Chord, along with B.

Now, a couple of other things to do. Go around playing the root note of each chord on your music. For me, this helps me identify where each note is on the lower fretboard.
Low E - E, F, F#, G, G# A, A#,B
A, A#/Bb, B, C, C#, D, D#

Why? Because when you start doing your barre chords, knowing where your root is will be extremely helpful. The reason is that barre chords follow a pattern that makes them easy to understand what the formula is. For instance. For a major chord that starts with a root on the low E string,it will be an E shape (First finger barre on the fret that has the low E root, 2nd on G string 1 fret below the barred fret, third on D string 2 frets below barred fret, pinky on A string 2 frets below barred fret. For a chord with the root on the E string A minor chord will be an Em shape (same as E shape but lift middle finger off). For chords that have a root on the A string, Major chords will be an A-Shape. Barred on the fret with the A string Root and muting/skipping the low E, and then middle, ring, and pinky fingers on the B, G, D strings 2 frets below the barred fret. For a minor, just move your middle finger one fret closer to the barred fret (Am shape). Once you get barre chords down, it really makes things easier (so I am told...I will let you know when I get barre chords down)

Again, wall o text is to explain why you want to know where the roots for each chord are.

If you are having trouble remembering which string is which, it's:
Eddie Ate Dynamite Good Bye Eddie (EADGBE)

Finally, learn to start reading music, not just tabs. Learning how to read music is going to make learning music so much easier.

Lines on the staff. EGBDF (Every Good Boy Does Fine). Spaces on the staff (FACE)

Hope this helps.

Again, you are doing good.

[heboil]

Thanks for all the tips and suggestions already!

I have already started putting in more time than I was when I first posted... am I think I am starting to see some progress unfolding in front of me.

Now, I have a quick question:

I am just playing around with the beginning of My Sweet Lord... with a capo on the 2nd fret. So I need to play an A. But with me moving down because of the capo, fitting all three fingers to play the A is physically tough to make the squeeze (even on the Seagull). But as I was playing the Em with two fingers, I just tried slipping those two fingers down and playing the three strings of the A... and it worked perfectly and I was actually able to make the chord change in perfect time.

Now my question isn't, is it possible... because I know it is. The real question is, should I not look for easier ways to do things if I can find alternative methods? Am I setting myself up for problems in the future?

Thanks . Sorry if I am meandering here. I didn't want to start another thread to ask this question if I can expand as I go here.

Thanks again!

[Stonehauler]

Originally Posted by heboil

Thanks for all the tips and suggestions already!


I am just playing around with the beginning of My Sweet Lord... with a capo on the 2nd fret. So I need to play an A. But with me moving down because of the capo, fitting all three fingers to play the A is physically tough to make the squeeze (even on the Seagull). But as I was playing the Em with two fingers, I just tried slipping those two fingers down and playing the three strings of the A... and it worked perfectly and I was actually able to make the chord change in perfect time.

Now my question isn't, is it possible... because I know it is. The real question is, should I not look for easier ways to do things if I can find alternative methods? Am I setting myself up for problems in the future?

Thanks . Sorry if I am meandering here. I didn't want to start another thread to ask this question if I can expand as I go here.

Thanks again!

Look back to my Barre Chord discussion in my post.

On the low E string, the A is on the 5th fret. So to get an A Chord, it will be an E shape on the 5th fret down from the nut (not the capo) This is assuming you want a true A chord. So if you can play the F barre chord on the first fret, you should be able to play the A barre chord on the 5th fret. It's the same shape, just up the fretboard towards the body. Does that make sense?

If they want you to play the same shape as the A on the 2nd fret down from the capo, and you can't get your index, middle, and ring fingers on D, G, and B string on the 4th total fret (2 down from the capo) respectively, then Justin Guitar has an alternative fingering which is middle, index, and ring on the D, G, and B strings, which allow some people to get it a bit tighter. However, my teacher will probably skin me for suggesting that (she already has flayed me several times for using that fingering in practice).

[heboil]

Originally Posted by Stonehauler

Look back to my Barre Chord discussion in my post.

On the low E string, the A is on the 5th fret. So to get an A Chord, it will be an E shape on the 5th fret down from the nut (not the capo) This is assuming you want a true A chord. So if you can play the F barre chord on the first fret, you should be able to play the A barre chord on the 5th fret. It's the same shape, just up the fretboard towards the body. Does that make sense?

If they want you to play the same shape as the A on the 2nd fret down from the capo, and you can't get your index, middle, and ring fingers on D, G, and B string on the 4th total fret (2 down from the capo) respectively, then Justin Guitar has an alternative fingering which is middle, index, and ring on the D, G, and B strings, which allow some people to get it a bit tighter. However, my teacher will probably skin me for suggesting that (she already has flayed me several times for using that fingering in practice).

Yes... it's the "a" shape. So I guess the traditional approach is to figure out how to get all three fingers into their respective strings in the same fret. My hands aren't gargantuan, so I'm sure I can eventually get it. There is a barre chord soon after that is going to plague me... so it may be a swing and a miss and move into trying something a little closer to my level. But the playing and trying is part of the journey and practice on its own.

[Stonehauler]

Make sure your hand is correctly positioned on the neck. One of the biggest problems I am working through is hand/arm position in relation to the neck. This is something hard to see if you don’t have an in-person teacher who can correct you. That said, if you have issue getting your fingers on the strings on the 4th fret, it’s probably hand position more than anything, if you have said 7th or 10th fret, I would have commiserated with you, but A shape on fret 4 should be doable, just take your time and work slow on that chord change until the placement is automatic

[tbirdman]

In regards to the A chord, you can use 3 fingers but in the 2-1-3 finger order instead of 1-2-3 order. That will provide a little more room.

The other method will barre the 2,3,4 string on the 2nd fret and either not press the 1st string or mute the 1st string using the barre finger. Not pressing 1st string using the barre finger makes practice and is easier with an electric guitar.

I used this barre technique quite often especially like when I use Travis Picking that some finger patterns don't use the 1st string for an A chord.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by heboil

Now, I have a quick question:

I am just playing around with the beginning of My Sweet Lord... with a capo on the 2nd fret. So I need to play an A. But with me moving down because of the capo, fitting all three fingers to play the A is physically tough to make the squeeze (even on the Seagull). But as I was playing the Em with two fingers, I just tried slipping those two fingers down and playing the three strings of the A... and it worked perfectly and I was actually able to make the chord change in perfect time.

Now my question isn't, is it possible... because I know it is. The real question is, should I not look for easier ways to do things if I can find alternative methods? Am I setting myself up for problems in the future?

In this case, I don't think so. Fretting those 3 strings in a row can be done several ways: three separate fingers (I use 2-3-4, but 2-1-3 is good if you have large fingers, tucking the index up behind middle and ring), a one-finger partial barre (if you can either avoid or mute the 1st string, not fret it at the same time); or some combination of two fingers, as you're doing. (Many people play the movable A-shape as a double barre, with the ring finger on those three strings.)

There is no one "correct" way of fingering any chord. Most shapes have one obvious easiest, most practical or efficient fingering, but many have a few potential fingerings, and it;s worth exploring them all. A lot of the time you want an alternative fingering to make a specific change easier - exactly as you've found with this one.

But Stonehauler is quite right. It's common for self-taught beginners to get into a habit of positioning the fret hand wrong - a bad arm or wrist angle. It's easy to grab the neck in the palm, and then finger some of the easier chords that way, but that's inefficient for a whole lot of more advanced guitar playing - and can actually cause pain because the muscle action is inefficient and you can be exerting excess pressure where you don't need to.

Good rules of thumb (ha!) are as follows:

1. Don't hold the neck in your left hand (as you would normally hold such an object). The neck shouldn't need support. The guitar should be supported (by leg, body, right arm) in such a way that the neck stays where it needs to be. (Angled up slightly.) If you're playing seated, sit the waist of the guitar flat on your thigh - either one! - and tuck it back close against your torso. You may need to raise the leg, or use some kind of support between thigh and guitar, but the guitar should feel firm and secure before you even touch it with your fret hand. (On the left leg, classical style, the neck will be up around 45°, the headstock level with your head. On the right leg, the neck should be up at just a slight angle from the horizontal. The following guides should work the same either way.)

2. To check the guitar's position, place an index barre across the neck, around frets 5-7. With the index parallel to the frets, it should be pointing right at your eye, no more than 9-10 inches away from your face when you look down at it (less is great). The thumb will be on the back of the neck pointing upwards - not parallel with the neck. There should be a good inch of air between the neck and your palm.

3. In general, think right angles. Fret arm elbow at 90° (or less), forearm at 90° to neck when fretting around 5-7, fingertips at 90° to the strings as far as possible.

4. But don't get too rigid in any one position! This is most important. Use the above as a guide to check your guitar's position, but the fret arm and hand can move in all kinds of ways to get their various jobs done. The arm should feel relaxed, the only sense of effort or pressure should be the fingertips on the strings. Even the thumb on the back of the neck doesn't need to exert a lot of pressure if the guitar is held securely elsewhere. Sometimes the thumb can come over the top, either for special tasks (muting the 6th) or just because it can (if the chord is easy enough that way); but don't leave it there as a habit. Barres are played with a slight pull-back of the arm, supporting the thumb.

[heboil]

Again... thanks so much. I am certain I am breaking RULE 1... as I would suspect many beginners are doing. When the guitar is on my leg and I am seated, the guitar is not tight against my body... more at a big slope towards my body so I can see the fretboard very easily. I had expectations that I would need this "cheat" as I am learning, and as muscle memory would develop, the guitar would lose that slope. But couple that slope with my fretting hand position, it could be causing some or all of the problems I am having with this and some other chords.

Originally Posted by JonPR

In this case, I don't think so. Fretting those 3 strings in a row can be done several ways: three separate fingers (I use 2-3-4, but 2-1-3 is good if you have large fingers, tucking the index up behind middle and ring), a one-finger partial barre (if you can either avoid or mute the 1st string, not fret it at the same time); or some combination of two fingers, as you're doing. (Many people play the movable A-shape as a double barre, with the ring finger on those three strings.)

There is no one "correct" way of fingering any chord. Most shapes have one obvious easiest, most practical or efficient fingering, but many have a few potential fingerings, and it;s worth exploring them all. A lot of the time you want an alternative fingering to make a specific change easier - exactly as you've found with this one.

But Stonehauler is quite right. It's common for self-taught beginners to get into a habit of positioning the fret hand wrong - a bad arm or wrist angle. It's easy to grab the neck in the palm, and then finger some of the easier chords that way, but that's inefficient for a whole lot of more advanced guitar playing - and can actually cause pain because the muscle action is inefficient and you can be exerting excess pressure where you don't need to.

Good rules of thumb (ha!) are as follows:

1. Don't hold the neck in your left hand (as you would normally hold such an object). The neck shouldn't need support. The guitar should be supported (by leg, body, right arm) in such a way that the neck stays where it needs to be. (Angled up slightly.) If you're playing seated, sit the waist of the guitar flat on your thigh - either one! - and tuck it back close against your torso. You may need to raise the leg, or use some kind of support between thigh and guitar, but the guitar should feel firm and secure before you even touch it with your fret hand. (On the left leg, classical style, the neck will be up around 45°, the headstock level with your head. On the right leg, the neck should be up at just a slight angle from the horizontal. The following guides should work the same either way.)

2. To check the guitar's position, place an index barre across the neck, around frets 5-7. With the index parallel to the frets, it should be pointing right at your eye, no more than 9-10 inches away from your face when you look down at it (less is great). The thumb will be on the back of the neck pointing upwards - not parallel with the neck. There should be a good inch of air between the neck and your palm.

3. In general, think right angles. Fret arm elbow at 90° (or less), forearm at 90° to neck when fretting around 5-7, fingertips at 90° to the strings as far as possible.

4. But don't get too rigid in any one position! This is most important. Use the above as a guide to check your guitar's position, but the fret arm and hand can move in all kinds of ways to get their various jobs done. The arm should feel relaxed, the only sense of effort or pressure should be the fingertips on the strings. Even the thumb on the back of the neck doesn't need to exert a lot of pressure if the guitar is held securely elsewhere. Sometimes the thumb can come over the top, either for special tasks (muting the 6th) or just because it can (if the chord is easy enough that way); but don't leave it there as a habit. Barres are played with a slight pull-back of the arm, supporting the thumb.