Sinker redwood - tone development?

jazzizm · #1 04-21-2020, 08:20 AM

I am going to have a guitar built with a sinker redwood top. The builder asked me today if it‘d be a problem for me if the top will not exhibit a maturation process like a spruce top does over the first 12 go 24 months of playing. He says sinker redwood behaves like cedar in that regard.

I must say, in my experience spruce tops gain quite a bit of fullness and openness over the first couple of years. On the other hand, I do not miss such development with the all-mahogany 00-12 I had made 4 years ago. Either I didn‘t notice or the guitar didn’t actually change.

What is your opinion on that?

Guitars44me · #2 04-21-2020, 09:25 AM

In my limited experience, Redwood, like Cedar, sounds more mature from the get go.

I believe your guitar will still get better with age, playing, and getting used to being a guitar, but it will definitely sound older when you get it.

I hope this makes sense, and I hope it helps!

Have fun, and stay well!

Paul

jazzizm · #3 04-21-2020, 10:04 AM

It does help, thanks!
I‘m not sure if I get this though:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guitars44me

…, but it will definitely sound older when you get it.

Steve Kinnaird · #4 04-21-2020, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzizm

It does help, thanks!
I‘m not sure if I get this though:

I think what Paul meant by his statement is that it will sound more mature as soon as you get it, than a comparable spruce-topped guitar.
And I certainly hope Paul doesn't mind me speaking for him?

Uh, Paul.....?

SK

_zedagive · #5 04-21-2020, 10:46 AM

I have a sinker redwood Breedlove. Over the past 2 years of ownership, the tone has definitely changed for the better - louder and the crispness of the notes (especially harmonics) has made me smile. The look of sinker redwood is a plus too. Congrats and don't forget to post pics when it arrives.

cigarfan · #6 04-22-2020, 05:48 AM

I used to own a BTO Sinker Redwood Taylor that was outstanding the day it arrived. Nice warm tone. Very musical. I used the term "piano like" to describe it. I only had it for 3 years and my experience was pretty much as your luthier has described. Not much change but still sounded great to me.

Michael Watts · #7 04-22-2020, 06:08 AM

While there may be a "smoothing" of the spiker transients, all things being equal my experience has taught me that there is less of a dramatic change with a redwood top than you you might expect with Spruce, all other things being equal.

That said, my advice to anyone is always don't invest time and money in a guitar hoping that its voice will change into something you like. That's askng for disappointment.

All the best

Michael

jazzizm · #8 04-22-2020, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Watts

While there may be a "smoothing" of the spiker transients, all things being equal my experience has taught me that there is less of a dramatic change with a redwood top than you you might expect with Spruce, all other things being equal.

That said, my advice to anyone is always don't invest time and money in a guitar hoping that its voice will change into something you like. That's askng for disappointment.

All the best

Michael

Thanks for chiming in Michael!
To be clear, I‘m not hoping for improvement of a guitar that is yet to be conceived. I do hope it is going to be awesome from the get-go though! (At the moment we‘re looking at African Blackwood for back and sides, possibly unlacquered.)

Flat5 · #9 04-28-2020, 01:06 PM

Sorry wrong post...

Guitars44me · #10 04-28-2020, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kinnaird

I think what Paul meant by his statement is that it will sound more mature as soon as you get it, than a comparable spruce-topped guitar.
And I certainly hope Paul doesn't mind me speaking for him?

Uh, Paul.....?

SK

Exactly what Steve said. It should sound much more open and mature from the get go. One of the reasons I like Cedar tops (and Tone-Rites). I am old and impatient.

Thanks Steve for the clarity

Paul

nootis · #11 04-28-2020, 09:39 PM

I have experience with a new sinker and a new spruce, both SJ's and from the same builder. 2 "well seasoned" used redwoods as well.

The spruce exhibited the most noticeable maturity period, and definitely opened up for the better. For the new sinker, right out the gate it exhibited a warm piano-like tone as Cigarfan suggested. It too loosened up a hair, but not as drastic as the spruce. I don't know if it would make a difference, but one is a baritone (spruce) and the sinker is an 8 string.

However there is one caveat... I received my baritone, and about a month later I got a nasty dog bite on my left middle fret finger (yes, the best one!). After about two months off from playing, I slowly started playing again. Around three months after that, I had nerve surgery on said finger. When I finally recouperated, perhaps my Zen had jaded my overall recollection.

For what it's worth, I'd be plenty excited to be getting a custom built sinker top guitar regardless.

Michael Watts · #12 05-17-2020, 03:07 AM

This is slightly tangential but I just reviewed a Lowden guitar in sinker redwood for The Guitar Magazine and my more general comments regarding this wood may be of interest to you.

You can read the whole review right here

All the best

Michael

jazzizm · #13 05-17-2020, 03:51 AM

Thanks for the insight Michael! I will definitely go with the guitar sinker redwood for my commission (paired with EIR for b/s).

mikealpine · #14 05-19-2020, 01:26 PM

My experience is much the same; the guitar's overall tone didn't change much; it was lovely from the start. I had a Sinker Redwood/Maccassar Ebony Taylor. When it came in, it was not as loud as I thought it should be, and thought it was because of the size, a GA. So I put it up for sale and commissioned another guitar. In the time it took to sell (I wasn't in a rush), it "blossomed" in terms of volume. While it was still just as beautiful, it definitely took less effort to coax the sound out, and really was louder overall. I had to sell it to pay for the commission, but wish I had that one back.

cigarfan · #15 05-20-2020, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikealpine

My experience is much the same; the guitar's overall tone didn't change much; it was lovely from the start. I had a Sinker Redwood/Maccassar Ebony Taylor. When it came in, it was not as loud as I thought it should be, and thought it was because of the size, a GA. So I put it up for sale and commissioned another guitar. In the time it took to sell (I wasn't in a rush), it "blossomed" in terms of volume. While it was still just as beautiful, it definitely took less effort to coax the sound out, and really was louder overall. I had to sell it to pay for the commission, but wish I had that one back.

Well, you might be able to (get that back). If you are in the market, PM me. Let's talk!