Help with Rhythm - Grief & Praise - Glen Phillips

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by mattbn73

The syncopation is still the distinguishing characteristic IMO. Syncopation in three or six etc. is slightly more confusing to hear than four. In 4/4 time, if you put accents on beat 1 , the- &- of- 2, and then on beat 4, there is an obvious uneven pattern to the syncopation which sets up your ability to easily hear the beginning of the next measure. You're taking a straight un- syncopated eighth note feel (2+2+2+2) and swapping it for something like (3+3+2).

In 3 (or 6 or 12 etc), it feels funny, because you're trading one kind of EVEN pattern for another, to achieve that syncopated sound. So, a 2+2+2 straight, folky waltz becomes 3+3. So, now more subtle SECONDARY accents are necessary to sell it ...or even to learn to hear it easily, but it's among the best stuff in music once you learn it. Of course all of this is easier in person. Very awkward in text form. I do this stuff with kids but it's incremental steps at a time. The kind of feel he's getting in that video is pretty advanced in my opinion. Great playing.

Here's my take on the syncopated bit. Still awkward. In lessons I'd break it down more for sure: https://youtu.be/MBOic1ycags

I'm honored, really. Thank you so much! And, wow, your take on it with fingers is impressive.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by stanron

You asked how to strum this. I thought someone would have answered by now but here goes anyway.


Each beat divides into three rather than the usual two. So instead of counting

1 + 2 + 3 +

for each bar you count

1 + + 2 + + 3 + +

for each bar. To strum the basic pattern you strum down on the number, do nothing on the first + then strum up on the second +. Like this

D   U D   U D   U
1 + + 2 + + 3 + +

You can see that the down strum lasts twice as long as the up strum. Once you get the feel for the rhythm you may well be able to figure out the syncopation yourself.

I'm going back over this whole thread today and really studying all the info. Stanron, your help is much appreciated, this is a pretty good way to describe the swing. Can you elaborate why you would describe this as 3 beats rather than 4? Compound triple rather than compound quadruple, I guess?

[stanron]

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

Can you elaborate why you would describe this as 3 beats rather than 4? Compound triple rather than compound quadruple, I guess?

I can hear that his down strokes last longer than his up strokes. Not everyone's version of this will have the down stroke exactly twice as long as the upstroke but for notation purposes this is a good, practical, way to represent that particular rhythm.

To be pedantic, it is a guitar forum after all, I don't think of these as beats in themselves, but rather as divisions of one beat.

I see this as three beats in a bar and each beat is divided into three. Standard swing time is four beats in the bar with each beat divided into three. As tempos increase the distinction between different types of beat division can get harder to spot and to play. In a slower song the division of the beat into three would be clearer.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by stanron

I can hear that his down strokes last longer than his up strokes. Not everyone's version of this will have the down stroke exactly twice as long as the upstroke but for notation purposes this is a good, practical, way to represent that particular rhythm.

To be pedantic, it is a guitar forum after all, I don't think of these as beats in themselves, but rather as divisions of one beat.

I see this as three beats in a bar and each beat is divided into three. Standard swing time is four beats in the bar with each beat divided into three. As tempos increase the distinction between different types of beat division can get harder to spot and to play. In a slower song the division of the beat into three would be clearer.

I think everyone here agrees it's a compound time, 3 divisions to the beat. The number of beats per measure is open to interpretation, apparently. I was asking what made you choose 9 rather than 6 or 12. I realize there's a point where it doesn't matter, but I'm working on understanding all this. Go ahead and be pedantic, I teach in university - won't bother me none.

[stanron]

The reason I say three beats to the bar is because there is an emphasis on the first of each group of three beats. That is the one that occasionally is percussive. It is a repeating pattern and I see it as 3/4 time. Some people put two of these bars together and call it 6/8. For me the pace and the division of each beat into three makes 3/4 my preference.