Revisiting Cryptocurrencies

[rllink]

Originally Posted by JonWint

Crypto is one of those investments that you shouldn't invest more than you can afford to lose (not your life savings). I'm 70 years old and have 1% (previously 2+% before drop) in crypto. It's enough to keep me interested.

I purchased most of it in 2018. Gain to date is 250% and was as high as 550%.

One family member was in Ethereum from the beginning in 2014. From $2000 to multi-millionaire. Three quarters of it was periodically sold on the way up and invested in stock funds.

Can massive gains be realized again in ICO's or current coins? Maybe?

Now is a time to buy Ether and Bitcoin at a deep discount.

Me too. I have some bitcoins. Not a lot, but nothing ventured nothing gained. I got the same push back from same people with Tesla when it came out.

[reeve21]

To me this is akin to gambling, perhaps because I don't comprehend how it works. And I don't gamble, work too hard for my $ to give it away.

I know a lot of smart young people who think this is a great investment. I'm not smart enough to understand why.

[Murphy Slaw]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

Bitcoin, the original cryptocurrency, peaked last November and has since declined by more than 50 percent."

Ouch......

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by reeve21

To me this is akin to gambling, perhaps because I don't comprehend how it works. And I don't gamble, work too hard for my $ to give it away.

I know a lot of smart young people who think this is a great investment. I'm not smart enough to understand why.

I like this guy! Solid common sense.

Tony

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw

If it lost 50% of its value since Nov., does it really exist?

Maybe it halfway exists...

Does it function when the power is out?

I drove through a Popeyes last night and the lady said "Cash Only", the internet is down."

I had cash. No problem.

More and more firms take no business when the payment and approval systems are down because counterfeit is a big problem too.

Having done work for Popeye's and other franchise owners I think that's a really poor example. I don't think they own more than 5% to much more of their stores. It was barely 3% when we did that work. We dropped it because the franchise owners where mostly cheapskates unwilling to give proper attention to PCI DSS compliance and high availability.

Physical security is also a significant issue when power is out so there's a trend to just close the doors or use a backup payment system when power is out. Food sellers also tend to close shop with the power out because of loss and shrink.

There's just no perfection in payment systems whether something very old or modern. They all require trust. Trust was required when I grew up with a farm, scrap yards, mechanical scales and a cash box just like trust is required in my experience with level 1 & 2 merchants.

I could argue using blockchain is more trust but I'm not sure it would be understood. Even with a lot of experience and some certifications there's a lot in payments, PKI, blockchain and just layers 6 and 7 I don't know.

For the core topic here I do stand on feeling speculation and trust are the issues more than the technologies.

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

I like this guy! Solid common sense.

Tony

Ditto that.
My feeling is that a lot of institutional inertia will have to be shaken loose before it becomes viable, i.e. as long as our current financial structures incl. the Fed, Treasury, banks, CPA firms etc...remain in place, crypto will remain in the speculation arena. Because it should upend all those institutions should it become the main currency.
I think that was El Salvador's big mistake. They bought all the furniture before the house was built.

[AX17609]

Originally Posted by rllink

...nothing ventured nothing gained. I got the same push back from same people with Tesla when it came out.

Interesting. As of today's close, Tesla has lost $730M of the nearly $2B it held in Bitcoin at the beginning of the year. The company's stock is down 43% from its high last November. I'm sure it's nothing.

[rllink]

Originally Posted by AX17609

Interesting. As of today's close, Tesla has lost $730M of the nearly $2B it held in Bitcoin at the beginning of the year. The company's stock is down 43% from its high last November. I'm sure it's nothing.

Everything tanked today. The Dow was down 1164 points. It is only something if you get scared. I'll ride it out and we'll see. I don't have any Tesla anymore. I sold it some time ago and bought a winter home in San Juan with my gains. I'll be alright. Besides, I don't have enough in bitcoins that it will break me if it goes belly up anyway.

[Silly Moustache]

I'm so old I remember the "South Sea Bubble" ... just sayin'

[Horsehockey]

See derivatives and subprime lending in the 2007 2008 meltdown. If you can’t understand it, don’t invest in it.

[Dirk Hofman]

I object to it purely on power usage and environmental impact. In addition to the massive energy usage, about 37 kilotons of electronic waste are annually produced as a byproduct of Bitcoin mining. Nope. Not going to be part of that nonsense.

[tbeltrans]

This is Tesla:



That other Tesla guy, well he's just into cars and space and stuff.

Tony

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

I object to it purely on power usage and environmental impact. In addition to the massive energy usage, about 37 kilotons of electronic waste are annually produced as a byproduct of Bitcoin mining. Nope. Not going to be part of that nonsense.

Ironic thing about technology - it all creates a huge swath of waste. Due to obsolescence, we end up switching phones, computers, tablets, TVs, and even cars as they go obsolete yet still work just fine. Where does all that old stuff go?

I remember when I was working full time and some of my engineering co-workers were really on the "green" bandwagon, which amounted most often to criticizing everybody else. Yet, they were often the ones with the latest phone or computer, ditching the old stuff as fast as something new came along and never giving a thought to where that stuff ended up.

The technology tax write off life was three years back then, so every three years, the companies I worked for would get us all new computers while scrapping the old ones.

So I doubt that electricity usage is of any importance to the Bitcoin crowd, yet I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of those involved are espousing the "green" bandwagon ideals.

Clearly, not all folks are like that (in fact I suspect most aren't), which is why I used the word "some". But the co-workers who were, were quite vocal in their criticisms of the rest of us for real or imagined infractions of the ideals they espoused.

The irony of it all.

Tony

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

Ironic thing about technology - it all creates a huge swath of waste. Due to obsolescence, we end up switching phones, computers, tablets, TVs, and even cars as they go obsolete yet still work just fine. Where does all that old stuff go?

I remember when I was working full time and some of my engineering co-workers were really on the "green" bandwagon, which amounted most often to criticizing everybody else. Yet, they were often the ones with the latest phone or computer, ditching the old stuff as fast as something new came along and never giving a thought to where that stuff ended up.

The irony of it all.

Tony

For sure there's a ton of electronic waste, and a lot of mining of toxic metals to make all the cool devices. That stuff is NOT good, and so much of our trash just gets shipped to China where we never see it. We're fooling ourselves on some level for sure.

On the other hand, these devices allow me to work from home and not commute 95% of the time, paper use has dropped dramatically etc. My use of the computer brought me to plant-based eating (the idea came a forum member here no less!), which massively reduced my personal carbon footprint.

So there is a balance. On balance I'd guess my footprint has been far less than it would have been in a strictly analog age, but nothing comes without impact.

I get a new laptop and phone from my company every 3 years. They get refurbished and put back into use. I'm sure my company is the exception, but I appreciate the efforts they make.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

For sure there's a ton of electronic waste, and a lot of mining of toxic metals to make all the cool devices. That stuff is NOT good, and so much of our trash just gets shipped to China where we never see it. We're fooling ourselves on some level for sure.

On the other hand, these devices allow me to work from home and not commute 95% of the time, paper use has dropped dramatically etc. My use of the computer brought me to plant-based eating (the idea came a forum member here no less!), which massively reduced my personal carbon footprint.

So there is a balance. On balance I'd guess my footprint has been far less than it would have been in a strictly analog age, but nothing comes without impact.

I get a new laptop and phone from my company every 3 years. They get refurbished and put back into use. I'm sure my company is the exception, but I appreciate the efforts they make.

I have certainly done well with technology. I had a great career as a software engineer, retired early at age 60 and still have in demand skills that recruiters contact me about several times a week.

My point wasn't about that aspect of it, since that really is a given that we have all benefited from technology. Instead, it was about the part that nobody talks about.

Tony