Recommended Internal Mics

[MrErikJ]

Hey All,

I have a guitar loaded with a Baggs LB6 & PUTW #54, which are wired to a stereo jack and controlled with a Baggs MixPro. The MixPro is designed to preamp a SBT or Mic on the second channel and I was just wondering if there's a mic anyone would recommend? I haven't had much luck searching, but I'm sure there must be a "standard" out there. I'm not sure I'd want to switch what I currently have, but curious if there are any mics that are recommendable and viable.

In terms of power, the MixPro can provide the mic phantom power via the TRS cable.

[NoodleFingers]

I think Doug Young is the expert around here on such things, and he has a website where he has recordings of a bunch of different pickup systems, including internal mics.

As I recall, one of the internal mics he likes quite a bit is the DPA 4060 or 4061. I believe they both require a 9–15V bias voltage (phantom power) to work properly. They're quite expensive new, but they show up on ebay quite a bit because stage productions use them a lot and sell them off when they close.

[Doug Young]

There are quite a few choices for mics. I have used the DPA 4061, which is a nice mic that a lot of people use. It runs $500 new, but I've gotten them as low as $50 on ebay. Lately, I've been using the Audix L5O, which is what Laurence Juber has used. They're $199 new, and I like them as well, maybe even better than the DPA, partly because the wiring is a lot easier to work with, but they sound excellent, too. The K&K Silver Bullet is a reasonable option, at around $100 new. There are others, from AKG, Audio Technica, and so on. Basically, almost any small electret mic, often used as lapel mics can work. One mic that used to be popular (not sure it's still available) is a $20 or so Radio Shack mic. I have a demo of that somewhere on my pickup page.

[NoodleFingers]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

There are quite a few choices for mics. I have used the DPA 4061, which is a nice mic that a lot of people use. It runs $500 new, but I've gotten them as low as $50 on ebay. Lately, I've been using the Audix L5O, which is what Laurence Juber has used. They're $199 new, and I like them as well, maybe even better than the DPA, partly because the wiring is a lot easier to work with, but they sound excellent, too. The K&K Silver Bullet is a reasonable option, at around $100 new. There are others, from AKG, Audio Technica, and so on. Basically, almost any small electret mic, often used as lapel mics can work. One mic that used to be popular (not sure it's still available) is a $20 or so Radio Shack mic. I have a demo of that somewhere on my pickup page.

With the L5O, do you use the omnidirectional or cardioid version?

And how is the wiring easier to work with?

Thanks.

[Doug Young]

The "O" is for omni. I doubt it makes much difference when the mic is inside the guitar - I know some will disagree, but the mic's inside a small box (the guitar), so any effect of directionality will be pretty limited. There is a cardiod version, I believe, but I haven't tried one.

The DPA 4061 has wires that are about as thin as a single hair. Incredibly difficult to work with. It can be done, but they are a test of your eyesite, dexterity and soldering skills. The Audix wires are "normal" :-), and just very easy to work with.

[NoodleFingers]

Got it. Thank you.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

There are quite a few choices for mics. I have used the DPA 4061, which is a nice mic that a lot of people use. It runs $500 new, but I've gotten them as low as $50 on ebay. Lately, I've been using the Audix L5O, which is what Laurence Juber has used. They're $199 new, and I like them as well, maybe even better than the DPA, partly because the wiring is a lot easier to work with, but they sound excellent, too. The K&K Silver Bullet is a reasonable option, at around $100 new. There are others, from AKG, Audio Technica, and so on. Basically, almost any small electret mic, often used as lapel mics can work. One mic that used to be popular (not sure it's still available) is a $20 or so Radio Shack mic. I have a demo of that somewhere on my pickup page.

Thank you, Doug! As a matter of fact, when I was researching my pickups, your website was invaluable. I chose the LB6 as my UST and the PUTW based on your samples.

The PUTW has a great sound, but is woefully low power. I find it may work better on its own than blended w/the LB6 as the LB6 out-powers it no matter how low its gain is set. The PUTW can only take gain to about 11 o'clock before it starts getting muddy. I would try the PUTW UST, but I didn't care for its sound as much as the LB6 and I like the "bullet proof" qualities of the LB6. So, since I'm committed to the LB6, I would like to find a better second-source option, hence my consideration of a mic in place of the SBT.

However, I did receive an Amazon e-mail telling me a bout a LB6 TRS endpin preamp that's on sale and might resolve my power issues. So, I developed a couple ideas that I would love your input on.

I could:
-Leave the setup as is and continue using the MixPro to manage the LB6 & PUTW and just work to address balance issues

-Replace the PUTW w/a condensor mic and let the MixPro power it

-Replace the endpin jack with something active (which I wanted to avoid originally) and use the same pickups but purchase a different model blender, probably a floor model of some sort. If both pickups are now active, I don't see the need to power them at the belt-clip anymore and would rather just send them to a floor model to reduce clipping.

-The most ambitious: Remove the PUTW #54, wire the LB6 as active, wire the PUTW Quackbuster to the LB6's connector (which drops output and blends the SBT in at 50/50), use the secondary source for a microphone, control the entire thing via a floor blender

I'm possibly overthinking this, but I just want to have the most flexibility possible.

[Doug Young]

Those all seem like reasonable options. The LB6+an SBT seems like potentially a nice combo, the only issue is the differing levels. The MixPro could handle that, or PUTW makes the PowerPlug that could work. Better would be something that offers a bit of EQ and individual gain for each channel. The Grace Felix would be ideal, but there are cheaper options, too.

There are a couple of end-pin preamps that *might* work. The DTar Wavelength is a nice option. I havent tried it with those pickups, but it should work, and has a bit of support for adjusting the gain of the channels. The Schatten end pin preamp is also a nice option, that might work.

I've not tried the LB6+mic, but it seems reasonable. That would be the simplest system in your guitar, just the passive UST+mic. I'm not sure what stereo LB6 jack you saw, but just the standard Switchcraft/Fishman would work fine. The PUTW+mic might be ok, but the #54 is already very "mic-like". Usually when blending pickups, you want pickups that complement each other and are different (like the LB6 and #54). I'd think the combination of punch and big bass you get from the LB6 combined with some air from the mic, might work well.

one thing about a mic, is that you usually do need some EQ. At the very least, they tend to be a bit boomy inside the guitar, so you want to roll off some low end. You might also be able to roll off some high end from the LB6, which is where most pickups sound less natural - then let the mic handle more of the highs. I usually use the Grace Felix these days and it has a high-pass filter that works great with an internal mic. I just turn it to where it's cutting out the low boom of the mic, and that's about all it needs. But you could do something similar with any preamp that has decent EQ.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Those all seem like reasonable options. The LB6+an SBT seems like potentially a nice combo, the only issue is the differing levels. The MixPro could handle that, or PUTW makes the PowerPlug that could work. Better would be something that offers a bit of EQ and individual gain for each channel. The Grace Felix would be ideal, but there are cheaper options, too.

There are a couple of end-pin preamps that *might* work. The DTar Wavelength is a nice option. I havent tried it with those pickups, but it should work, and has a bit of support for adjusting the gain of the channels. The Schatten end pin preamp is also a nice option, that might work.

I've not tried the LB6+mic, but it seems reasonable. That would be the simplest system in your guitar, just the passive UST+mic. I'm not sure what stereo LB6 jack you saw, but just the standard Switchcraft/Fishman would work fine. The PUTW+mic might be ok, but the #54 is already very "mic-like". Usually when blending pickups, you want pickups that complement each other and are different (like the LB6 and #54). I'd think the combination of punch and big bass you get from the LB6 combined with some air from the mic, might work well.

one thing about a mic, is that you usually do need some EQ. At the very least, they tend to be a bit boomy inside the guitar, so you want to roll off some low end. You might also be able to roll off some high end from the LB6, which is where most pickups sound less natural - then let the mic handle more of the highs. I usually use the Grace Felix these days and it has a high-pass filter that works great with an internal mic. I just turn it to where it's cutting out the low boom of the mic, and that's about all it needs. But you could do something similar with any preamp that has decent EQ.

I, like Icarus, began to reach too high and had to remind myself "keep it simple." My current setup of the LB6 & PUTW#54 is a good passive solution that I can preamp with the MixPro. The LB6 is the perfect passive UST and the PUTW is very mic-like, but more stable. The only issue has been matching levels between the pickups, which I can do with the MixPro, but the PUTW becomes more boomy as you increase that channel's gain. However, that channel has two levels of bass cut and I should just accept that I need to engage and master them.

I chose these pickups because I wanted something passive that couldn't break and I don't really want to have to change a battery mid-performance that's in a bag on the neck block. Regarding the endpin jack I saw, it's a Baggs active LB6 TRS endpin. It was tempting as it would preamplify the PUTW and scrap the need for the MixPro, but I would still need a blender unit and I don't know of very many that are available. Also, an active endpin seems like overkill for the LB6.

Thanks again for your insight.

[Doug Young]

Do you have a link to that end-pin preamp? I haven't come across that.

I suspect your issue with increased bass on the PUTW isn't just that you're increasing gain - adding gain shouldn't affect the tone unless the preamp's broken. But what you may be hearing is what the pickup really sounds like at volume (our ears hear differently as volume changes), or maybe even interaction between the speaker output and your guitar. Bass resonances and increased lower mids, a sort of "tubby" sound is one of the characteristics of many SBTs when playing loud enough for the amplified sound to start interacting with the guitar top (which doesn't have to be very loud)

There are quite a few blender choices out there, but I agree, sticking with a simple passive solution would be easiest. The PUTW Powerplug might be a good choice for you, since it can blend to mono, has adjustable gain on each channel, and plugs into your end-pin jack so you don't have to worry about passive pickups going thru long guitar cables.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Do you have a link to that end-pin preamp? I haven't come across that.

I suspect your issue with increased bass on the PUTW isn't just that you're increasing gain - adding gain shouldn't affect the tone unless the preamp's broken. But what you may be hearing is what the pickup really sounds like at volume (our ears hear differently as volume changes), or maybe even interaction between the speaker output and your guitar. Bass resonances and increased lower mids, a sort of "tubby" sound is one of the characteristics of many SBTs when playing loud enough for the amplified sound to start interacting with the guitar top (which doesn't have to be very loud)

There are quite a few blender choices out there, but I agree, sticking with a simple passive solution would be easiest. The PUTW Powerplug might be a good choice for you, since it can blend to mono, has adjustable gain on each channel, and plugs into your end-pin jack so you don't have to worry about passive pickups going thru long guitar cables.

I'll look up the Powerplug, but I don't remember seeing that on the PUTW website recently. I hear they used to have a pretty cool preamp, but it doesn't seem to be listed on their site.

Regarding the LB6 endpin, here's the Amazon link:
https://www.amazon.com/LR-Baggs-Endp...rds=LB6+endpin

[Doug Young]

I see that it has a TRS jack, but it's not clear what the ring is for or how you access it. I suspect there's no gain on the 2nd channel, if it supports a 2nd channel. On the other hand, this endpin preamp from Schatten does have 2 channels, with adjustable gain on each. Might be just what you want:

https://www.amazon.com/Schatten-Arti.../dp/B002OFOR30

[roelioo]

Doug,

How do you install
the mic (audix) in an acoustic guitar?

[midwinter]

Take a look at the ATM 350, which is the new version of the AT35.

Watch Critter's guitar in this Punch Brothers video:



Apparently for a while Thile (and Nickel Creek) just ran AT35s on all the instruments.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by roelioo

Doug,

How do you install
the mic (audix) in an acoustic guitar?

Most of these little electrets are just a small mic on the end of a wire. I use a small wire clip, something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Black-Adhesiv.../dp/B005MN2QHK Wrap the mic in a bit of foam. There are other clips that woudl probably work. I mount mine just inside the soundhole, under the strings. Then wire the mic to ground and sleeve of the end-pin jack