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  #106  
Old 10-30-2017, 07:43 AM
mistertomlinson mistertomlinson is offline
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Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
OK - your choice! You might want to bear in mind the point about playability. Not that (I guess) anyone is going to be playing your arm - - but sometimes notation can be over the top in aiming for rhythmic precision, when an easier (quicker) to read version would be good enough.
The advantage of the fancier version, of course, is just that it looks fancier! I'm no tattoo expert, but it strikes me that looking fancy is the whole point of a lot of them.

Good luck with the calligraphy, and make sure you study the print versions closely for proportions and thick/thin lines (on the time sigs as well as beams etc).
(I have done calligraphy myself in the past - I have a design/illustration degree - and I would charge less than that woman, but I think you should do it yourself. Take your time, get it right.
Craaaaaap. It seems that the most popular choice among people who KNOW how to read music is the first example. But it just seems that if someone who had never heard the song before sat down and played the music and it didn’t sound as it was recorded, then the transcription failed. While the second option is not easy to read and play quickly, is it safe to assume if given enough time, the reader could figure out exactly how it’s supposed to be played? While the first example would always sound wrong if you didn’t have the song to listen to for reference?

My point of the tattoo is not for anyone to read and play it, but for it to be the accurate graphical representation of the music.

Also, perhaps you could be my contingency plan for the calligraphy. I definitely wanna give it a try myself, especially considering I’ve already bought the pens and tablet. But if I can’t do it well enough, I’d love to arrange something with you.
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  #107  
Old 10-30-2017, 08:00 AM
Scootch Scootch is offline
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Consider having it done in piercings instead.
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  #108  
Old 10-30-2017, 12:45 PM
Guitar Slim II Guitar Slim II is offline
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Originally Posted by mistertomlinson View Post
My point of the tattoo is not for anyone to read and play it, but for it to be the accurate graphical representation of the music.
I wouldn't beat this dead horse any further, except you seem to still be trying to make up your mind.

Couple things: Which is more meaningful, a score that can be read by a musician? Or one that can only be played back by a computer?
Would you feel the same way about words? That it doesn't matter if anyone cann read them or not?

Also, the only difference between all three of these ornaments is -- James Hetfields somewhat ham-fisted technique. I hear what you hear, the rhythm isn't exactly an even triplet, two notes are a little rushed. I'm not convinced the variation is intentional though. And it not consistent every time -- it couldn't be, not at this level of detail. To take it to the extreme: if you really wanted to follow through on accuracy, you would have to write out all 16 bars without repeats, and notate the ornament twice to get the rhythmic variation EXACTLY right BOTH times. Kind of ridiculous, IMO.

I think Jon's example 1 is the best compromise. It's written as a readable, classical-style ornament. It's clear, comprehensible, and it does express the uneven rhythm -- with more than enough accuracy, IMO.

Last edited by Guitar Slim II; 10-30-2017 at 01:04 PM.
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  #109  
Old 10-30-2017, 12:57 PM
Gitfiddlemann Gitfiddlemann is offline
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Here's a version I came across in cyber land, showing the measure in question (taken from the intro). The notation is not in "classical" form, as noted earlier by Chris.

I'm sure there are many notation variations out there, apart from what was discussed here.
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  #110  
Old 10-30-2017, 02:40 PM
mistertomlinson mistertomlinson is offline
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Originally Posted by Guitar Slim II View Post
I wouldn't beat this dead horse any further, except you seem to still be trying to make up your mind.

Couple things: Which is more meaningful, a score that can be read by a musician? Or one that can only be played back by a computer?
Would you feel the same way about words? That it doesn't matter if anyone cann read them or not?

Also, the only difference between all three of these ornaments is -- James Hetfields somewhat ham-fisted technique. I hear what you hear, the rhythm isn't exactly an even triplet, two notes are a little rushed. I'm not convinced the variation is intentional though. And it not consistent every time -- it couldn't be, not at this level of detail. To take it to the extreme: if you really wanted to follow through on accuracy, you would have to write out all 16 bars without repeats, and notate the ornament twice to get the rhythmic variation EXACTLY right BOTH times. Kind of ridiculous, IMO.

I think Jon's example 1 is the best compromise. It's written as a readable, classical-style ornament. It's clear, comprehensible, and it does express the uneven rhythm -- with more than enough accuracy, IMO.
OK OK. You guys have convinced me. Example 1, it is. Done. My pens will be here tomorrow. I hope I can perfect my non existent calligraphy skills in no more than a couple of days.
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  #111  
Old 10-31-2017, 03:59 PM
HodgdonExtreme HodgdonExtreme is offline
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What a cool thread!

Following along as anxiously as anyone, despite having nothing to offer!!
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  #112  
Old 10-31-2017, 04:28 PM
mistertomlinson mistertomlinson is offline
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Change of plans. It looks like I won’t be getting the tattoo until December. I’ve been looking at music tattoos and most artists draw the lines very thick. As you can imagine, the thicker the line, the more forgiving they are if you don’t have a perfectly steady hand.

“Fine line” tattoos are growing in popularity. They use a smaller needle and require more skill so not all artists will do them. But I think the staff would look best using thin lines. The notes can be thicker, but if the calligraphy is going to be properly drawn, more care will have to be taken than I think the average tattoo artist is willing to give it.

So, I was looking at the tattoo shop’s Facebook page and there was a very detailed line drawing of a rabbit that was drawn with lines of varying thickness that looked great. The guy clearly had experience with thin line tattoos so I asked to cancel my appointment with the first artist and schedule a consultation with this guy. I was even told I could bring the music into him and he could design it himself. This was something the other guy didn’t seem interested in doing.

He only works on Sundays and drives a couple hours just to get here. Unfortunately, he’s completely booked for the month, so I will only be able to consult with him. Nonetheless, I don’t wanna leave any stone unturned and I definitely believe this is the guy that should be doing my tattoo. I’ll talk to him Sunday and keep everyone informed.
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  #113  
Old 11-01-2017, 12:13 PM
SouthpawJeff SouthpawJeff is offline
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Does he have examples of having done something similar to what your doing? There are a million tattoo artists and some of them are actually talented. But there are also many different specialties. I think I'd want to see some work similar to what I wanted, not just something that looks good. I Have a friend who's an artist and wanted almost a full arm in a very specific style. He looked around for months and finally went to a tattoo convention where he found "the guy". Of course his was more involved and took months to do the actual tattoo. Not saying you need to do the same, just that you've put a LOT of effort into getting this just right. May make sense to make sure the guy putting ink in your skin has that capability to do what you want and get it right....since there's only one chance to get it right😉

Good luck,
Jeff
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  #114  
Old 11-01-2017, 05:45 PM
mistertomlinson mistertomlinson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthpawJeff View Post
Does he have examples of having done something similar to what your doing? There are a million tattoo artists and some of them are actually talented. But there are also many different specialties. I think I'd want to see some work similar to what I wanted, not just something that looks good. I Have a friend who's an artist and wanted almost a full arm in a very specific style. He looked around for months and finally went to a tattoo convention where he found "the guy". Of course his was more involved and took months to do the actual tattoo. Not saying you need to do the same, just that you've put a LOT of effort into getting this just right. May make sense to make sure the guy putting ink in your skin has that capability to do what you want and get it right....since there's only one chance to get it right😉

Good luck,
Jeff
The biggest criteria I have is that the lines not be too thick. Every example I've ever seen of music tattoos are done with bold lines. Look at these examples:







I guess I wouldn't be completely upset with any of those tattoos. I know it's not gonna be 100% as is the nature of doing something by hand, so I've tempered my expectations.

I want my music to look more handwritten and I think it would look great with very thin lines in the staff and thicker lines for the notes and articulations. I think the contrast would make it kind of dynamic. I don't have any examples because I haven't found any.

But fine line work takes skill and not all artist can do it well. I found a picture of some line work he did on the tattoo shop's Facebook that, while not exactly what I'm getting, it exhibits his skill pretty well. There are varying line widths and the edges appear smooth. Not like he had to go over the same line multiple times. Here's the tattoo:



Notice some of the thinner lines in the tattoo. These are how I'd like the staff done. I'm gonna talk to him Sunday, bring my examples as well as my version I hope to have done by then and explain exactly what I want. While I'm there, I might ask if they have anyone at that shop that "specializes" in that kind of fine line detail.

Here's a random example of a fine line tattoo:



Not all artists will even do these. They require more skill. Notice how tiny some of the lines are. In fact, some of them look like perfect fountain pen lines to me. They're not 100% perfect but bleed just a little along the edges, almost like a fountain pen. If I could get the tattoo done like that, I'd be so happy.
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  #115  
Old 11-01-2017, 09:44 PM
Guitar Slim II Guitar Slim II is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistertomlinson View Post
The biggest criteria I have is that the lines not be too thick. Every example I've ever seen of music tattoos are done with bold lines. Look at these examples:







I guess I wouldn't be completely upset with any of those tattoos. I know it's not gonna be 100% as is the nature of doing something by hand, so I've tempered my expectations.

I want my music to look more handwritten and I think it would look great with very thin lines in the staff and thicker lines for the notes and articulations. I think the contrast would make it kind of dynamic. I don't have any examples because I haven't found any.

But fine line work takes skill and not all artist can do it well. I found a picture of some line work he did on the tattoo shop's Facebook that, while not exactly what I'm getting, it exhibits his skill pretty well. There are varying line widths and the edges appear smooth. Not like he had to go over the same line multiple times. Here's the tattoo:



Notice some of the thinner lines in the tattoo. These are how I'd like the staff done. I'm gonna talk to him Sunday, bring my examples as well as my version I hope to have done by then and explain exactly what I want. While I'm there, I might ask if they have anyone at that shop that "specializes" in that kind of fine line detail.

Here's a random example of a fine line tattoo:



Not all artists will even do these. They require more skill. Notice how tiny some of the lines are. In fact, some of them look like perfect fountain pen lines to me. They're not 100% perfect but bleed just a little along the edges, almost like a fountain pen. If I could get the tattoo done like that, I'd be so happy.
There is an error in the first example. LOL, but I’m serious. The first bar is 4-1/2 beats long. One of those quarter notes needs to be an 8 th. Probably the last one, just like measure two.

No 2 is also quite incorrect now that I look at it.

Good thing you had yours proofread.

Last edited by Guitar Slim II; 11-01-2017 at 09:52 PM.
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  #116  
Old 11-01-2017, 11:41 PM
mistertomlinson mistertomlinson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitar Slim II View Post
There is an error in the first example. LOL, but I’m serious. The first bar is 4-1/2 beats long. One of those quarter notes needs to be an 8 th. Probably the last one, just like measure two.

No 2 is also quite incorrect now that I look at it.

Good thing you had yours proofread.

Hahaha. Thaaaaaat sucks.
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  #117  
Old 11-02-2017, 01:01 AM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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Some of these have contrast: http://nextluxury.com/mens-style-and...signs-for-men/

It's really about contrast, more than thin lines. The staff could be slightly lighter or faded or less focused or the notes could be bolder.
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  #118  
Old 11-02-2017, 07:09 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistertomlinson View Post
The biggest criteria I have is that the lines not be too thick. Every example I've ever seen of music tattoos are done with bold lines. Look at these examples:







I guess I wouldn't be completely upset with any of those tattoos.
Well, you ought to be if you'd had the first two done! The first one is musically illiterate (the rhythm ain't the only thing wrong with it - check that clef!), and I guess the guy didn't care whether it was an actual piece of music or not. He's probably not a musician, and the designer/tattooist certainly wasn't.

The rhythms are wrong in the second one too, but it's neat, the clef is good, although the beams could be heavier.

The third one is pretty good, I think. The music makes sense (4-part harmony no less!) and the thicks and thins are all good (although a little random on the clefs). Approaching print quality. Could be an old engraving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistertomlinson View Post
I know it's not gonna be 100% as is the nature of doing something by hand, so I've tempered my expectations.

I want my music to look more handwritten and I think it would look great with very thin lines in the staff and thicker lines for the notes and articulations. I think the contrast would make it kind of dynamic.
IMO, something like the 3rd one but with thinner lines if possible would be the best you could expect. It's obviously hand-done, but done by someone who knows what he's doing. Either designed by a literate musician (and good artist), or faithfully copied by the (very good) tattooist from a printed version - so the "hand-done" quality is down to him.
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Originally Posted by mistertomlinson View Post
Notice some of the thinner lines in the tattoo. These are how I'd like the staff done. I'm gonna talk to him Sunday, bring my examples as well as my version I hope to have done by then and explain exactly what I want. While I'm there, I might ask if they have anyone at that shop that "specializes" in that kind of fine line detail.
Good idea. IMO, the "hand-done" quality you want would be achieved by the tattooist copying a printed version - as I think was done with the 3rd example above. (Just ask if your guy can do thinner lines than that.)
Otherwise you risk something like the first two: hand-drawn from something hand-drawn risks compounding any untidiness.
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  #119  
Old 11-02-2017, 07:56 AM
frankhond frankhond is offline
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To me, the last photo you posted is way superior to all other examples.



Why not find out who made it and hire that person?

Cool idea anyway, I’m very curious how it turns out.
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  #120  
Old 11-02-2017, 09:59 AM
mistertomlinson mistertomlinson is offline
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Originally Posted by frankhond View Post
To me, the last photo you posted is way superior to all other examples.



Why not find out who made it and hire that person?

Cool idea anyway, I’m very curious how it turns out.
That was an image I find online. It wasn’t local.

I did find this. It’s almost the same size I want but I want it to continue up my arm. It looks pretty good.

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