Recommended Internal Mics

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I see that it has a TRS jack, but it's not clear what the ring is for or how you access it. I suspect there's no gain on the 2nd channel, if it supports a 2nd channel. On the other hand, this endpin preamp from Schatten does have 2 channels, with adjustable gain on each. Might be just what you want:

https://www.amazon.com/Schatten-Arti.../dp/B002OFOR30

Thank you! That seems much better as it would be nice to pre-set the gain on each channel. The PUTW can use a good boost but the LB6 really doesn't need any gain at the endpin, so that could be set to a minimum. I really don't want to have batteries in the guitar (hence the MixPro belt-clip preamp) but this would be the right way to do it, should I ever cave on my passive pickup requirements.

Regarding blenders, I mentioned I'm using the MixPro, but are there any other good models? If I went with the active endpin, I'd ditch the MixPro for a more sophisticated floor unit. I saw K&K has one, but I'm not sure their impedance would be a match for the LB6 or PUTW. The Fishman Pocket Blender is no longer available and I don't see many used models available.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by MrErikJ

Thank you! That seems much better as it would be nice to pre-set the gain on each channel. The PUTW can use a good boost but the LB6 really doesn't need any gain at the endpin, so that could be set to a minimum. I really don't want to have batteries in the guitar (hence the MixPro belt-clip preamp) but this would be the right way to do it, should I ever cave on my passive pickup requirements.

Regarding blenders, I mentioned I'm using the MixPro, but are there any other good models? If I went with the active endpin, I'd ditch the MixPro for a more sophisticated floor unit. I saw K&K has one, but I'm not sure their impedance would be a match for the LB6 or PUTW. The Fishman Pocket Blender is no longer available and I don't see many used models available.

There are lots of good blender/mixers. With an active preamp, you can pretty much use any mixing board. For guitar-oriented floor models, check out the Grace Felix, Headway EDB-2 K&K Quantum, a used DTar Solstice, uses Raven Labs PMB, and others I'm forgetting.

[ballynally]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

one thing about a mic, is that you usually do need some EQ. At the very least, they tend to be a bit boomy inside the guitar, so you want to roll off some low end. .

Put your ear against any guitar hole and you won't like what you hear. It's mostly bothersome low end frequencies but some low mids are there too. As the box is rather inefficient in its output those nasty frequencies remain in the guitar. 10 cm away from the sound hole the guitar sounds much better.
There is a reason most guitars are recorded slightly away from the soundhole and closer to say the 12th fret or at the lower bout. Apart from the fact that you get more sound from the resonating top that way.
And that's why internal mikes are always going to have issues..You simply can't filter everything out..

[Doug Young]

All true, yet, surprisingly, they can sound quite good. I was interested at a Tommy Emmanuel workshop a while back to see him demonstrate that he uses his mic *heavily*, it's a signifiant portion of his sound, and he showed us that it sounded really good by itself. He started with it, had a great sound, then just added in the UST to add a bit more directness. He said he ended up 50/50, equal contributions from each.

In my experience, when added into another pickup, it makes any pickup sound more realistic. I don't always get to 50/50, even 10% helps. It's like adding spices to your food - you probably don't want to eat a plate of pepper - but it can make another dish tastier.

[ballynally]

I did have a Fishman Rare earth combi (sound hole pickup+mic) that i used for a while and yes, i did the blend with the mic mixed in between 10%-20% depending on whether i strummed or picked. However, it did not quite get me where i wanted to be.I've tried various outside mics but feedback issues/ ghost notes kept creeping in when my amp was close, though i still think a mic sound is the best through a proper PA. Hence Gillian Welch and Dave Rawlings' preference for that setup. But i think they must work with a soundman with extended filter options, and not stand too close to a speaker. They also do play before a quiet audience and are not confronted with a noisy pub crowd.
I keep coming back to K&K's pure mini for the best compromise. One can then opt for a combi with either UST or sound hole pup. Funnily enough the K&K also picks up sound from the body. When amped there was a difference in sound whether the sound hole was blocked or not (and i really do mean the sound from the amp).I've ordered another one for my Kalamazoo K14..

[fingeryoga]

I use a lb6 blended with a akg 516 ml mic in all my guitars .The akg needs a specific voltage though.

[Doug Young]

I totally agree that a mic is mostly useful in situations where the audience can really hear the sound. That usually means a good PA, not an amp (I've never had good luck with mics and amps), and at least a relatively quiet audience. In a noisy bar, the fine nuances are going to lost anyway, and the game is just about being heard. In loud situations, a mic is just going to be a problem.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

All true, yet, surprisingly, they can sound quite good. I was interested at a Tommy Emmanuel workshop a while back to see him demonstrate that he uses his mic *heavily*, it's a signifiant portion of his sound, and he showed us that it sounded really good by itself. He started with it, had a great sound, then just added in the UST to add a bit more directness. He said he ended up 50/50, equal contributions from each.

In my experience, when added into another pickup, it makes any pickup sound more realistic. I don't always get to 50/50, even 10% helps. It's like adding spices to your food - you probably don't want to eat a plate of pepper - but it can make another dish tastier.

Isn't that kind of what the Baggs Anthem or Anthem SL does?
I have SL's in all four of my acoustics and generally set the microphne out put at about 50%. Seems to do the trick.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

Isn't that kind of what the Baggs Anthem or Anthem SL does?

The Anthem implements the common approach of blending a mic+pickup, rolling the highs off the pickup (which is the part that sounds most unnatural) and rolling the lows off the mic (which is the part that is too boomy). People have been doing this for a long time, but the Anthem does it all for you without you needing to deal with the details, using a crossover (B-Band also has a cross-over type pickup that works more or less the same way). The pros of the Anthem, which gets lots of good reviews, is that it has everything pre-selected to work together for you, so if you like the sound that results from the combination (Element UST, TruMic, and a 250Hz crossover, bended to mono), you're all set. If you prefer to use a different main pickup, a different mic, want the flexibility to EQ them individually, or to pick a different crossover point, etc, etc, then you might want to roll your own. Like anything, you might be able to outdo a stock approach with a custom approach, but it requires more time and effort and runs the risk that it won't sound better than something that's been well-designed off-the-shelf.

I like the Anthem, but prefer the sound I get from a more traditional mic and something other than the Element. Of course, I tend to end up with a bigger investment. For example, my one guitar that has a UST, (so it's closest to the Anthem), has a Barbara passive UST ($300) + an Audix mic ($200) and I use the Grace Felix for EQ/blending ($1000), so we're talking about a very flexible system, but one that costs $1500 compared to the $199 Anthem SL.