Unknown songwriter making video, posting on YouTube a good idea?

[Winfred]

Originally Posted by varmonter

As far as copywriting goes im no expert.
If you post in social media..Lets say
Blake Shelton sees it and says this
guy doesnt have this copywrited
So he steals it records it and has a number one hit. Youll need to find a lawyer who will do it for a % of what
he can get from sheltons people.Who
have better lawyers than him. Weighing
whether you think its all worth it or not.

HI Varmonter!

This is omninous! Thanks for such a warning! It's going to be expensive, but I'll have to dig deep and copyright. I thought all was copyrighted upon creation or upon recording it. Someone along the way said posting it on YouTube is proof of date of origin too... but like you say, the reality is they can take it, have more powerful lawyers, and I can't afford a lawyer... Really though, I can't imagine anyone taking my song let alone getting more than 50 hits ha! Really though, you make a point.

Also, I have one song that's somewhat of a medley, but not really, a song between a Lightfoot and a Dylan song. What about that kind of a song, where I refer to lyrics from their songs, like, "I'm tangled up in blues!" I have my own lyrics. There are parts where I'm wearing boots of Spanish leather and walking the coast of Barcelona, and sailing in the mountains of Madrid, like that. I played it once at a very popular coffeehouse open mic, in fact their last one before the CoVid19 hit, and got a big applause. The host later said, "you must know you're good." I'm not really, but like my songs and see others have, worth a try to test the real waters. What happens with a song like that? Is it legal to copyright it and post it on YouTube? I surprised myself playing in public first time at open mics and finding people liking my original songs, and the few covers I rarely play, over the past 2 yrs.

Also, what happens when a musician posts a cover song on YouTube? I see a lot of musicians do that. If it were illegal I suppose they'd cancel them out, right?

Thanks!
Winfred

[Winfred]

Originally Posted by FrankHudson

We're picking up into a side conversation here I think.* If I read the OP right, she's a beginning performer who has had her development as stage performer interrupted by the current virus crisis.

My (albeit, I'm but an observant outsider) view of the current music industry is that I wouldn't encourage a performer near the beginning of whatever career they'll have (like Winifred) to make a record in a professional studio that soon. I doubt she's in a genre that can develop a sizeable streaming revenue without continuing on her current performance track and working out her style there and how she wants to present herself and her songs first.

If I'm missing something there, others with more experience in the current scene can make their case, and I'll step aside for their important first hand experience.

I reiterate what I suggested for feedback from the more experienced: I think making videos of a cheap and cheerful variety in the current situation could let Winifred start to self-audit her performance style and repertoire, and the exercise of choosing which ones to post on YouTube or the like could help her practice more about how she wants to present her act and songs. Secondarily she might get some useful feedback (and learn how to throw out the Internet heckler noise). That's my reading of where she's at.

What say you, more experienced ones?


*Jim1960's point may be irrelevant to Winifred right now, but I appreciated considering his point on home recording vs studio for those seeking recording results rather than performing.

Also Silly M and Glenn's posts are great posts about the current YouTube scene for them (and others in similar positions) performing and putting themselves out there in genre's often spoken about on this forum.

Hi Frank!

Very sorry if I caused some kind of a mix-up here in the while conversing with others. I'm "Winfred", and the daughter of the Father who posted this thread... I don't think he ever mentioned her name. Thanks though for such great advice that is also universal not only to this Father, but to the many.

Kindest Regards,
Winfred

[Thom PC]

Originally Posted by varmonter

As far as copywriting goes im no expert.
If you post in social media..Lets say
Blake Shelton sees it and says this
guy doesnt have this copywrited
So he steals it records it and has a number one hit. Youll need to find a lawyer who will do it for a % of what
he can get from sheltons people.Who
have better lawyers than him. Weighing
whether you think its all worth it or not.

I'm no expert either, but I think this is a very unlikely scenario. I would not think many pros are browsing YouTube, FaceBook, SoundCloud or wherever to try and steal some unknown amateur's songs. If they did, they would have a very poor case, as the original artist would have every proof necessary to show that they indeed created and recorded the material at a given point in time (because of the time and date of upload to said digital platform). Then, of course, there is the question of who can afford the most expensive lawyers, but again, this specific scenario would be very very clear cut, and not in favour of the wrongdoer. I don't think any professional would go this route, if not because of pride and self esteem, then because nobody wants a bad case like that to backfire on a professional career.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by Thom PC

I'm no expert either, but I think this is a very unlikely scenario. I would not think many pros are browsing YouTube, FaceBook, SoundCloud or wherever to try and steal some unknown amateur's songs.

In fact, most artists, recording companies and publishers will not even accept unsolicited songs any more. They don't want someone to hear a song on the radio and say, "Hey, that sounds kinda like the song I sent to them--they stole it, I'm going to sue!". These days, you need to go through some kind of agent to push your songs.

Winfred, I'm not an industry pro but I feel like you're getting way ahead of yourself! As a line in one of my songs goes, "Overnight success can take years and years" (it's copyrighted, so don't steal it ). You've gotten some small success performing locally, so far so good. Start slow. You don't need lawyers yet.

Make some recordings or videos. The details of how you do it isn't critical. Buy the gear you can afford, learn how to use it. If your results aren't perfect, it's not the end of the world. Post songs to Soundcloud and videos to YouTube. Let your family & friends know about them, post to any social channels you have. Make contacts with other musicians, studios etc. in your area to network and get your name and work out there. You can contact record labels, song publishers etc. but don't expect a response--but maybe you'll get lucky, who knows?

Build slowly on what you already have going.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Winfred

Also, what happens when a musician posts a cover song on YouTube? I see a lot of musicians do that. If it were illegal I suppose they'd cancel them out, right?

You should read this. It covers a lot of what you've been asking, including dispelling any fear from varmonter's scenario.

Posting Cover Songs On YouTube? What You Need To Know

[Winfred]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Winfred

As does happen here the discussion has blossomed

I would agree that deciding wether or not you want to invest the time and money in learning to record and video yourself OR not is the first thing to do.

Because as others have noted if you go down this route it will take time and money and will end up being more than a one time $200 for a camera purchase .
That said however:
I just went back and reread and finally picked up on this :

So if you already have a Scarlett 2i2 (technically called an "interface") then If you decide DIY is the route you want to take .Then I think the Zoom 4k camera will likely be a reasonable inexpensive next investment, and will likely serve well into the future as far as the video part of the equation. BUT
Because the mic pres, converters, and interface capability on the Scarlett will are what you will want to use for the Audio portion of your videos as soon as you afford 1 or 2 mics .


ALSO regardless of whether or not you decide to DIY or go to a pro studio ......
In reading your replies I also picked up the lengths of songs you are talking about. I would advise that especially for an introductory song ( as well as the majority of your songs thereafter Covers or Original ) make them 3:30 minutes or shorter.
Do not start off with a 9:00 minute song..... "How well" that might go over at an open mic is irrelevant, YouTube is completely different universe.
There are very specific reasons that almost without exception , "radio ready" versions of songs are 3:30 or shorter.

The true genius in songwriting is taking complex subjects and observations of life, and making them simple , short and to point, with as few words as possible.

Hi Kevwind!

Thanks for your advice! I have, since early January, the Scarlet 2i2 3rd Gen, 2 pop filters, and two shock mounts, all still sealed in the boxes as I got depressed thinking of having to learn ProTools all over again. It was a foolish decision, but I've held onto it all. I thought of selling just the 2i2 on Craigs List but held off in my ongoing quagmire. What was tempting... I also found a $35 an hour recording studio and even met with the owner who is very nice. I "released" or self-made and hired a CD manufacturer, 2 solo acoustic piano albums in 2004 and 2005 with "M-box" and a matched pair of 2 large diaphragm condenser mics. About 4,000 copies have sold of those. I haven't recorded since and now my M-box is obsolete (still in original box like new) and I have the 2 mics (pair cost $320 back then), cables, and mic stands.

So you're saying all I need is a video camera? Is it a real high tech thing to pair the video camera, maybe that Zoom q4n, with the 2i2 and my condenser mics? I want to show myself playing even though I'm not much to look at ha! The reason I'd show myself is I guess listeners like to see the musician creating the music, but I also want for variety to have nice shots maybe from around the area here. Is all that a lot of techy feats to accomplish? Maybe I'd just record myself playing and keep it simple. Also maybe I'd sell the 2i2 and get a Zoom q2n-4k and keep it very simple. I dread having to be techy once again. Years ago I used ProTools, just 2 tracks, one for each mic. Now I'd do the same, one for my voice and the other for my guitar. What do you or anyone suggest?

Thanks!
Winfred

[KevWind]

QUOTE=Winfred;6356885]HI Varmonter!

This is omninous! Thanks for such a warning! It's going to be expensive, but I'll have to dig deep and copyright. I thought all was copyrighted upon creation or upon recording it. Someone along the way said posting it on YouTube is proof of date of origin too... but like you say, the reality is they can take it, have more powerful lawyers, and I can't afford a lawyer... Really though, I can't imagine anyone taking my song let alone getting more than 50 hits ha! Really though, you make a point.

Whoa !!! Let's back up,,,, many well meaning people sometimes get the terms about copyright protection enforcement etc confused ....

First in the US your original song falls under copyright "protection" (meaning falls within the criteria of the US copyright legal statutes,,,, AS soon as you affix it to any tangible medium........... written on paper, recorded to analog audio or video tape , or recorded to digital file...
And if you publish it, to any medium ,, Youtube, SoundCloud, etc. It is in fact automatically under copyright protection. AND you can also state in a video that "All Rights are reserved" and you can state a date , or you simply use the copyright symbol = a C in circle.. ©... and a date

However (and here is where some people get confused) You can also "Register" your already copyrighted work, with the US Copyright Office ... which does give even more legal "precedent" (legal teeth ) to your claim of ownership. But in fact somebody can steal (infringe) on copyright, regardless of wether or not is "registered"

https://www.copyright.gov/registration/

And you can choose to register up to 10 original songs on one application for (i believe ) the same cost of registering 1 song. NOTE the info in the pink box on the above registration page.

Also, I have one song that's somewhat of a medley, but not really, a song between a Lightfoot and a Dylan song. What about that kind of a song, where I refer to lyrics from their songs, like, "I'm tangled up in blues!" I have my own lyrics. There are parts where I'm wearing boots of Spanish leather and walking the coast of Barcelona, and sailing in the mountains of Madrid,

This one I am not sure that might be a question for a copyright lawyer

Also, what happens when a musician posts a cover song on YouTube? I see a lot of musicians do that. If it were illegal I suppose they'd cancel them out, right? Thanks!
Winfred

Usually covers are not an issue on Youtube, but probably better to click Jim1960's link and get more info.
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As to your above post Yes if you have an interface and mics all you need is camera , audio recording software (DAW), and video editing software . And yes you sync (not pair) the video file and audio file .

Some video editing software does sync automatically if there is also sound on your camera,,, OR you can manually sync by simply clapping your hands once or tapping once on the guitar etc. at the start of your performance

[Al Acuff]

If you do not register your copyrights for your work your options in case of infringement are limited. You cannot sue in federal court and you cannot ask for statutory damages. Instead you'll have to take the song thief to civil court where you'll only collect lost income that you should have received as royalties. If the thief made no money from your song you'll get nothing.

Filing copyrights has never been easier. You can upload a recording and lyric sheet and make an electronic payment all in a few minutes. Also, you can copyright a collection of songs for one fee to save money on fees.

I've been pirated for unredistered intellectual property and my lawyer told me that if I had registered my copyright it would have been an easy $50K in my pocket. Without registration maybe $500. That's a big difference! Learn from my mistake folks. Register your copyrights.

[Winfred]

Originally Posted by jim1960

You should read this. It covers a lot of what you've been asking, including dispelling any fear from varmonter's scenario.

Posting Cover Songs On YouTube? What You Need To Know

Hi Jim!

Very nice of you to extend that very helpful link! I read the very informative article then right away sent an email to Joni Mitchell's publisher, Sony. Actually in about 60 seconds or less an automated email comes back with a list of entities and their links to apply to for various rights. I tried to explain in my email to Sony I'm low budget and only posting my video to see if people like my rendition and my ability to perform and not to make money. My email was probably just as quickly tossed.

I couldn't find a proper link to YouTube. The article states YouTube will get a mechanical license to various cover songs so any musician can post a cover as then YouTube can make money off the advertising. Well... I have to laugh as I don't even know about if YouTube goers will like me at all... Who knows, maybe 10 hits in a year ha!

I'll keep trying on who to ask at YouTube... but need to focus on what camera to buy as even now I see $50 price jumps with the Zoom q8, and also notes of them sold out or not available... yet also advice here where since I own the Scarlet 2i2 3rd Gen I could couple that with a camera and save money. The only thing is how tech savvy must I be to do that. I stalled since early January as the 2i2 sits still sealed in the box. I foolishly realized I'd have to learn ProTools or whatever to record with the 2i2. I also changed about instead wanting to post on YouTube a video. Also another stall factor was my finding a local $36 an hour recording studio. My self-imposed quagmire of indecision is complicated by a very low Social Security income based budget. Any ideas you or anyone else... let me know, yet I understand if you don't have time. I'm very grateful to you for taking your precious time to send your very helpful advice!

Carpe Diem!
Winfred

[Winfred]

Originally Posted by Al Acuff

If you do not register your copyrights for your work your options in case of infringement are limited. You cannot sue in federal court and you cannot ask for statutory damages. Instead you'll have to take the song thief to civil court where you'll only collect lost income that you should have received as royalties. If the thief made no money from your song you'll get nothing.

Filing copyrights has never been easier. You can upload a recording and lyric sheet and make an electronic payment all in a few minutes. Also, you can copyright a collection of songs for one fee to save money on fees.

I've been pirated for unredistered intellectual property and my lawyer told me that if I had registered my copyright it would have been an easy $50K in my pocket. Without registration maybe $500. That's a big difference! Learn from my mistake folks. Register your copyrights.

Hi Al!

Great advice! What a huge difference between no copyright and a copyright! Thanks to Jim here I read an article where you should write to the publisher of the artist if doing a cover song. All I want to do is post it on YouTube to see if people like my playing, not to make money. Still, I want to be legal. It would be my debut. The article stated YouTube will purchase mechanical rights to some cover songs so musicians can post them for free. I don't know if that's the case with Joni Mitchell and, "Both Sides Now". The other advice was write to their publisher. I found she's with Sony. I sent an email only to get an automated response about 60 seconds later with links to several different types of licenses one could apply for to various entities like Harry Fox Agency etc. I was just hoping since I don't plan to sell anything and I'm a Senior on very low budget that they'd let me do it for free... but I guess no chance of that. Thanks for your advice! Amazing all that happened with your music. You must be a great musician! I'm going to look you up. I love New Mexico and have been a fellow of the Helene Wurlitzer Foundation in Taos 5 times in my life. I wish I could live there but no public health care like Minnesota.
Kindest Regards,
Winfred

[Al Acuff]

Please note that the damages referred to in this article are statutory damages. Again, if you do not register the copyrights of your songs you cannot collect statutory damages. No ifs, ands, or buts.

https://completemusicupdate.com/arti...right-lawsuit/

It should go without saying that you need to obtain a license for any cover songs you plan to record and distribute because the creators have registered the copyrights and published their songs. They are hard working professionals who deserve to get paid for their work. If you can't afford the small licensing fee for a cover song then why not post one of your own orignal songs to Youtube? No licensing fee required.

Alternately there are a great many wonderful songs that are in the public domain and don't require licensing.
https://folkways.si.edu/anthology-of...um/smithsonian

[MikeBmusic]

Originally Posted by Winfred

I couldn't find a proper link to YouTube. The article states YouTube will get a mechanical license to various cover songs so any musician can post a cover as then YouTube can make money off the advertising. Well... I have to laugh as I don't even know about if YouTube goers will like me at all... Who knows, maybe 10 hits in a year ha!

Youtube changed their 'rules' about 2 years ago - you need a massive amount of followers and views before you can monetize a channel now. However, if you use a service such as CDBaby to distribute your songs (not cover songs), they will collect youtube royalties (this is fractions of a penny per play, so really doesn't add up unless you have a video that goes 'viral').

[Winfred]

Originally Posted by Al Acuff

Please note that the damages referred to in this article are statutory damages. Again, if you do not register the copyrights of your songs you cannot collect statutory damages. No ifs, ands, or buts.

https://completemusicupdate.com/arti...right-lawsuit/

It should go without saying that you need to obtain a license for any cover songs you plan to record and distribute because the creators have registered the copyrights and published their songs. They are hard working professionals who deserve to get paid for their work. If you can't afford the small licensing fee for a cover song then why not post one of your own orignal songs to Youtube? No licensing fee required.

Alternately there are a great many wonderful songs that are in the public domain and don't require licensing.
https://folkways.si.edu/anthology-of...um/smithsonian

Hi Al!

Please don't be mistaken, I honor the writer too. An example is I paid over $1,200 to the estate of an artist with my first album back in 2004, but it wasn't guitar as it is now, and I didn't tour etc, just sold word of mouth and sometimes when I played, also in some gift shops, and to businesses that have background music. It was piano back then. I also paid $687 to an artist on my second album, and all through Harry Fox, and all because I feel they deserve every penny. Even when for very significant lengths my melodies parted far from the original I still factored that in, every note, and gave them credit, and also gave them credit in my song list. I never even thought of YouTube back then and didn't even know it existed. Now days I want to give YouTube a try, test the waters, but this time my guitar and vocals. Even before your response, yesterday on my own I emailed Sony so I could find out about if I might owe the artist any money or get permission for YouTube and I haven't even recorded yet, still undecided on what equipment to get. I only got an automated response with a list of links to about 10 different entities to apply to for an array of licenses. I still hope Sony staff reads my email and responds individually, yet they probably get a lot of wannabes like me inquiring. Also, most likely nobody even clicking to listen to my cover song once I finally post it, and even far lesser chance, my being unknown, of any YouTuber clicking on my original songs. It's a huge ant hill and doubt too anyone wanting to buy as only if I get a lot of clicks would I then look at maybe posting my songs for sale at a record site.

Sincerely,
Winfred

[midwinter]

I'm confused about why you're paying such sums and why you're going directly through Harry Fox and Sony. Just purchase a license for your covers and call it a day.

[Al Acuff]

Originally Posted by Winfred

Hi Al!

Also, most likely nobody even clicking to listen to my cover song once I finally post it, and even far lesser chance, my being unknown, of any YouTuber clicking on my original songs. It's a huge ant hill and doubt too anyone wanting to buy as only if I get a lot of clicks would I then look at maybe posting my songs for sale at a record site.

Sincerely,
Winfred

Winfred, you're overthinking this. It's not rocket surgery. Since no one is paying you to make music then you should do what makes you happy. If that means recording cover songs and posting them on Youtube then go ahead. But be aware that if you don't have a license to use the song then Youtube may take your video down and give you a demerit.

If you find your song writing is becoming more than a hobby then you really should have a talk with an intellectual property attorney. Even if you find the advice here to be helpful keep in mind that none of us here are lawyers.

Have fun!