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  #16  
Old 03-01-2023, 11:46 AM
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Guitars44me Guitars44me is offline
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Smile Mr. Magill knows

The reply above from J. Magill is on the money!

I would add, if you want ergonomic, comfort, and tonal features (like I do) you will want to discuss them THROUGHLY with your builder BEFORE getting started. Make sure your builder is comfortable with your wants…

The older I get, the more important the ergonomics are to me.

For me, short scale, 12 fret cutaways, slim mod V carbon fiber reinforced necks, bevels, wedge, soundport, elevated fretboard extension, light weight, etc. all are worth the time and expense. One of the reasons to order custom is the ability to get all the stuff I want!

Check out John Kinnard’s “Pablo Package”

Of course, you may not seek any or all of these, but it is worth contemplating the options!

Happy hunting, and play pretty!

Paul
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Last edited by Guitars44me; 03-01-2023 at 01:06 PM.
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  #17  
Old 03-01-2023, 02:42 PM
s2y s2y is offline
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+1 on knowing YOUR specs inside and out. Some guys like V necks and/or big necks, which don't work with my hands. This might work perfectly for yours.

I ordered a Michael Kennedy acoustic a while back. I was able to play one at BIG and was keen to tell him to slim down the neck for my small hands. I almost forgot to do so when I initially ordered it.

It's possible for a custom guitar to be a "dud". I feel like this term is overused because guys don't fully understand specs and what they really want. I ordered an acoustic with a redwood top and ziricote back/sides. I didn't have the luxury to try a lot of redwood or ziricote acoustics in my area. I ultimately learned I'm not a redwood, ziricote, or mahogany (back/sides) guy. Are those guitars duds? No, but they're not for me.
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  #18  
Old 03-01-2023, 09:26 PM
tadol tadol is offline
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I’m gonna go in an opposite direction - I doubt you will get a truly fantastic guitar, custom built, for under $4,000. I think you can get a very nice guitar, but I would leave my expectations at that level. You most certainly won’t get something thats built to the level of craftsmanship and expertise of a Santa Cruz. But you can, probably, get a very decent journeyman-level instrument - and there is nothing wrong with that. What I would recommend would be to figure out what you really want spec-wise, and play as many used instruments - both factory-shop as well as solo builder - that are very close to those specs as you can, and see if you can find a pre-built option that works well for you. Thats a good budget for an exceptional used instrument - but you’re gonna need a lot of luck to get a really good, new, custom guitar at that price -
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  #19  
Old 03-02-2023, 12:22 AM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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It sounds like maybe you've found the guitar you really want - the Santa Cruz? I'm assuming you've actually played one, not just that you like the looks or have heard Eric playing his?

I get the idea, but I've been there multiple times when I was younger and broke :-) I knew I need a specific piece of gear, X, it had the sound and the features I needed. But it was expensive. So I bought an almost-X for half the price. Didn't quite do it, so I bought another, and another.... Pretty soon I had a half dozen pieces of gear, none of which quite did what I wanted, and collectively added up to several times what my original goal piece of gear was. Why did I do that instead of saving for what I wanted? Looking back I have no idea :-) At the time, it was just "I can't spend that much money", but I did spend that much and more, and still didn't have what I wanted.
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  #20  
Old 03-02-2023, 07:31 AM
sinistral sinistral is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
It sounds like maybe you've found the guitar you really want - the Santa Cruz? I'm assuming you've actually played one, not just that you like the looks or have heard Eric playing his?

I get the idea, but I've been there multiple times when I was younger and broke :-) I knew I need a specific piece of gear, X, it had the sound and the features I needed. But it was expensive. So I bought an almost-X for half the price. Didn't quite do it, so I bought another, and another.... Pretty soon I had a half dozen pieces of gear, none of which quite did what I wanted, and collectively added up to several times what my original goal piece of gear was. Why did I do that instead of saving for what I wanted? Looking back I have no idea :-) At the time, it was just "I can't spend that much money", but I did spend that much and more, and still didn't have what I wanted.
This is so true, and not just about guitars.

There are a handful of builders who will build a custom guitar for less than $5k, but there’s a reason why there’s only a handful—it’s hard to make a living building guitars and charging less than $5k for the finished product. Andy Bounsall already chimed in, and there was a builder at the Artisan Guitar Show last year—Coppertree Guitars—that also builds in that price range.

I would not expect either of them to duplicate a Santa Cruz 00 Eric Skye, at least not at their price points (and not a knock on Andy or the folks at Coppertree, I doubt they could duplicate a Santa Cruz 00 Eric Skye even if they charged as much as Santa Cruz). But I’m sure they could build you a very nice 00, which, after all, as others have noted, is just a derivative of a Martin 00.

As far as wait times go, there’s a reason again why better builders have long wait times—it’s a function of the builder’s productivity and the demand for their guitars. Santa Cruz makes something like 400 guitars a year (which is less than Martin makes in a week)—how many guitars a year can a solo luthier make? If an established luthier who is capable of building 10 guitars a year doesn’t have at least a handful of orders in his or her queue, that should tell you something.
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  #21  
Old 03-02-2023, 01:05 PM
JDB123 JDB123 is offline
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Originally Posted by colins View Post
For a bit more on commissioning custom builds you might like to browse this thread, that a lot of AGFers contributed to a couple of years ago.
Thanks for the link! More good info in that thread.
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  #22  
Old 03-02-2023, 01:12 PM
JDB123 JDB123 is offline
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Originally Posted by H165 View Post
You might want to go to one of the custom luthier shows we see popping up in a few places and check out the instruments at the tables.
That's a good idea. I've never considered going to one of these but I'm sure it'd be a great experience. Might even come away with a new axe!
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  #23  
Old 03-02-2023, 01:15 PM
JDB123 JDB123 is offline
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Originally Posted by Andy Bounsall View Post
He responded by sending a picture of the wood he liked and a video of the sound he was after. Well, after having a good chuckle to myself, I had to politely turn him away. The photo he sent me was a guitar made from The Tree and the video was of someone playing a Michael Greenfield creation.
Really funny anecdote. Don't worry, I'm not that green!
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  #24  
Old 03-02-2023, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmagill View Post
I've commissioned custom instruments from eight different luthiers and in every case the results have been spectacular.

In my experience, if you want to be happy with your finished guitar, here's my somewhat contrary advice:

1. Do not start with a budget. Put aside for awhile the question of how much you'll pay. Having a ballpark price range is reasonable, but if you start your search with a number you automatically limit your choices. I've always found it more difficult to find a truly great guitar than it is to find the money to pay for it. Focus on the guitar's tone first; once you find what you want, you'll figure out how to pay for it.

2. Find a builder whose sound really floats your boat. If possible, play multiple instruments from a wide range of builders. A visit to places like Dream Guitars, Carter Vintage/TNAG, Gruhn's, Luthiers Collection, Guitar Gallery, etc. can help you narrow down which guitars have 'The Tone' you're looking for. Remember that video clips only approximate the actual sound of the guitar. Go to guitar shows like Artisan, Woodstock, La Conner, etc. and sample what's there. If this is not possible, poll your friends whose opinions you respect. Prowl the forums like this one, the Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum, Mandolin Cafe, etc. for discussions of popular builders that resonate with your goals.

3. Once you find your builder, start a dialog to make sure you speak the same language. Get to know each other to be sure you both mean the same thing when using terms like 'warm', 'bright', 'dry', 'fat', 'clear', etc. Good communication is critical.

4. Let your builder recommend what will give you the sound you want. They can suggest the woods, body types and options that will make you happy with the results. Don't start with a list of features you've always wanted in a guitar. That will simply tie your builder’s hands and limit your possibilities. You’re paying for their skill and experience, so listen to them.

5. Remember that the top three determinants of the guitar's tone are, in order: 1. the builder, 2. the top wood, 3. everything else. You choose the first one; let your builder guide you through the others. The species of back & sides wood is highly over-rated; it flavors rather than determines the tone, and no matter how pretty, you won't see it when you're playing.

6. Unless you’re certain you’ll keep the guitar forever, don’t request unique features like your name inlaid in the fingerboard, a blue sunburst, etc. that will make it difficult to sell if you decide to move it some day. Stick close to the builder’s standard options.

7. Be patient. Luthier time is different than regular time. You want the guitar as soon as possible, but you also want a great guitar, so give them the time they need; you don't want them to hurry.
Wow, this is spot on. I'm going to copy this and work it into my sales pitch
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  #25  
Old 03-02-2023, 04:33 PM
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Andy Bounsall Andy Bounsall is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinistral View Post
…it’s hard to make a living building guitars and charging less than $5k for the finished product.
That’s probably true but, believe it or not, there are some of us building guitars for reasons other than to earn a living.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sinistral View Post
…I would not expect either of them to duplicate a Santa Cruz 00 Eric Skye, at least not at their price points.
A bit of a moot point as I think I’ve already expressed I’d have no interest in duplicating someone else’s work. If you like and want a Santa Cruz, I think you should save up your pennies and buy a Santa Cruz.
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Last edited by Andy Bounsall; 03-02-2023 at 10:49 PM.
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  #26  
Old 03-02-2023, 05:43 PM
phavriluk phavriluk is offline
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I have no idea of whether there's guitar shows available to OP; if one can be found, the visit will be a graduate course in custom builders. And maybe builders have guitars for sale at the show. No waiting, no guessing.
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  #27  
Old 03-02-2023, 06:52 PM
Frostie Frostie is offline
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Originally Posted by JDB123 View Post
Hi friends, got some ?s about commissioning a custom acoustic build.

I recently started a custom electric guitar build with the great Nic Delisle of Island Instrument Mfg. (https://www.island-instruments.com/models/) after a cancellation opened a build slot up.

After playing and owning major brand and boutique acoustics (Taylor, Martin, Santa Cruz) now I've got the custom instrument bug, but I'm wondering where to start with acoustic luthiers and how limiting my price range and build time impatience will be.

I was in talks with a luthier a little under a year ago about a close replication of a Santa Cruz 00 Skye, complete with Adirondack top and cocobolo b/s, at about half the SCGC price. I think the price range was somewhere around $3,500~ and the estimated build time was around 6-8 months. For various reasons I didn't take the plunge, but am now considering whether or not I should have/should reach back out and restart the process.

So my questions are:
1. Is it wrong/advisable to ask a smaller luthier to make essentially a copy of a bigger luthier's instrument?
2. In the sub-$4k range how many luthiers are out there making high quality custom instruments? (recommendations welcome)
3. It seems as if build times keep stretching on and on, is not wanting to wait a year+ for a custom instrument unreasonable?

Thanks in advance, all thoughts and comments appreciated!
I can’t recommend John McQuarry strongly enough. He’s the owner and luthier at Northwood Guitars in British Columbia. He’s probably within your price range.

Link: www.northwoodguitars.com.

Here’s a link to a demonstration of a Northwood by John Fowler, a longtime guitar store owner who is known and respected on this forum. His review convinced me to buy mine, sight unseen.
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  #28  
Old 03-07-2023, 05:01 PM
Jwills57 Jwills57 is offline
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I've commissioned numerous guitars over the years. Great experience, almost universally. My only bit of advice is to be somewhat flexible in your expectations, meaning the guitar you receive may not exactly match the guitar you envisioned, particularly in terms of spot-on sound profile; however, this doesn't mean that you've received a substandard guitar. I've always grown to appreciate the guitars I've commissioned, and actually over the years my tastes in what I like have ebbed and flowed a bit, so a guitar that I maybe wasn't completely enamored of several years ago today strikes me as quite wonderful, and perhaps vice-versa on occasion.
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  #29  
Old 03-08-2023, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by JDB123 View Post


1. Is it wrong/advisable to ask a smaller luthier to make essentially a copy of a bigger luthier's instrument?
It depends! Martin designs are so ubiquitous it's practically public domain at this point. No one is throwing lawsuits around for putting pyramid bridges and slotted headstocks on guitars so I'd say you're pretty safe there. There's no taboo, really. The main thing is picking a builder who enjoys making instruments in that style. We don't wanna go to Jackson Pollock to commission a marble statue.

Last edited by usb_chord; 03-08-2023 at 01:34 AM.
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  #30  
Old 03-08-2023, 06:43 AM
RHguitars RHguitars is offline
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Default Buy Local???

From my perspective as a builder I would say support local growth. If you can play a few of the builders guitars that will give you an idea of the quality of work. It also helps for resets etc...in the future if local it "should" be a quicker turn around....
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