Martin 00-15M - why is it standard scale and not short scale?

jacf · #1 10-01-2023, 04:28 AM

I've been looking at short-scale all-hog small-body guitars and in my travels I'd been looking at the Martin 00-15M but only just realised it's standard scale not short scale, despite the 00 in the name and being 14 fret. I know that 000 12-frets have standard scale but the 00-15M seems like an anomaly. Anyone know anything?

Steve DeRosa · #2 10-01-2023, 04:52 AM

Because Mr. Martin wants it that way...

jacf · #3 10-01-2023, 04:53 AM

Well, you’re not wrong.

Dotneck · #4 10-01-2023, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacf

. I know that 000 12-frets have standard scale but the 00-15M seems like an anomaly. Anyone know anything?

I’ve got a short scale 12 fret 000.

gr81dorn · #5 10-01-2023, 08:18 AM

One of the reasons the 15 series is so affordable is the efficiencies. One being that same 25.5” neck is used on all 3 of the 14 fret models.

sinistral · #6 10-01-2023, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr81dorn

One of the reasons the 15 series is so affordable is the efficiencies. One being that same 25.5” neck is used on all 3 of the 14 fret models.

This is the most reliable explanation that I have heard. The 15 Series guitars have the so-called A-Frame X-Bracing pattern, which is different from the X-bracing pattern used on Standard Series instruments (and perhaps some 17 Series guitars (?)). My understanding is that most if not all guitars with the A-Frame X-Bracing pattern have the same standard-scale necks for operational efficiency and “because that’s the way they were originally designed.” Note, too, that Martin left the specs of these guitars as-is when they reimagined the rest of the line, which perhaps explains why 14-fret 15 Series guitars also have 1-11/16” wide nuts. The details are sort of explained in these blog posts by T Spoon Phillips:

Martin 000 vs OM, what’s the diff? (why the 000-15s are called 000s and not OMs)

Martin Guitar Bracing in 2023—Soundboard Bracing Patterns Currently in Use at C. F. Martin & Co.

jacf · #7 10-01-2023, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinistral

This is the most reliable explanation that I have heard. The 15 Series guitars have the so-called A-Frame X-Bracing pattern, which is different from the X-bracing pattern used on Standard Series instruments (and perhaps some 17 Series guitars (?)). My understanding is that most if not all guitars with the A-Frame X-Bracing pattern have the same standard-scale necks for operational efficiency and “because that’s the way they were originally designed.” Note, too, that Martin left the specs of these guitars as-is when they reimagined the rest of the line, which perhaps explains why 14-fret 15 Series guitars also have 1-11/16” wide nuts. The details are sort of explained in these blog posts by T Spoon Phillips:

Martin 000 vs OM, what’s the diff? (why the 000-15s are called 000s and not OMs)

Martin Guitar Bracing in 2023—Soundboard Bracing Patterns Currently in Use at C. F. Martin & Co.

Yep, this makes sense. This is all news to me.

bsman · #8 10-01-2023, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dotneck

I’ve got a short scale 12 fret 000.

and I have a short-scale 12-fret approximately 00 (Waterloo WL-12 MH)

woodpecker87 · #9 10-01-2023, 11:28 AM

check out the Guild M-20. I like mine very much. Maybe a little smaller than Martin's 00 though if that matters to you.

jacf · #10 10-01-2023, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodpecker87

check out the Guild M-20. I like mine very much. Maybe a little smaller than Martin's 00 though if that matters to you.

An M20 is very much on my radar.

Muffinhead · #11 10-01-2023, 06:38 PM

How does the fretboard composition affect tone or playability when it is really the frets that do all of the work?

woodpecker87 · #12 10-01-2023, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muffinhead

How does the fretboard composition affect tone or playability when it is really the frets that do all of the work?

Err.. ummm. huh?
There is very much a difference between short and long scale.
It affects tone and playability.

A shorter scale means that strings have less tension on them, leading to strings that require a little less pressure to fret and/or bend.
It also means it may not drive the top with as much energy so it could result in a lower volume.

All subjective to the specific guitar, tone woods, and build of course.

woodpecker87 · #13 10-01-2023, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacf

An M20 is very much on my radar.

Best of luck in your search. I had a quick listen to some of your music - good stuff!

Muffinhead · #14 10-01-2023, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodpecker87

Err.. ummm. huh?
There is very much a difference between short and long scale.
It affects tone and playability.

A shorter scale means that strings have less tension on them, leading to strings that require a little less pressure to fret and/or bend.
It also means it may not drive the top with as much energy so it could result in a lower volume.

All subjective to the specific guitar, tone woods, and build of course.

I appreciate your reply and I do understand the difference between long and short scale, but I was talking about richlite vs ebony vs rosewood, etc.

jacf · #15 10-04-2023, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodpecker87

Best of luck in your search. I had a quick listen to some of your music - good stuff!

Don’t know how I missed this, but thanks for that. These tracks were from a few years back but I’ve very much disappeared down the acoustic route. I’ve a new album coming out soon and I’ll post a link. I’d be delighted to let you hear it.

Cheers,

Cam