Achieving tube warmth with vst's , and...

[kurth]

What's best way to go about Achieving Tube Warmth with VST's , with voice and acoustic guitar , and...how can it be compared to the hardware route using the bargain art mpa ii for example( which is onsale at sw) ? Are eq, comp, and sat enough? Is there another magic ingredient? I think doppler has an opinion, or at least a proximity. thanks

[DupleMeter]

There are some very nice saturation plugins available that are way better than budget hardware. IME budget tube gear sounds bad. They typically achieve the “tube tone” by “starving” The tube circuit of power to get the tubes to overload at a very low threshold.

Check out the Plugin Alliance Black Box, it’s one of my favorites.

If you’re using Pro Tools you could also just turn on HEAT.

[kurth]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

There are some very nice saturation plugins available that are way better than budget hardware. IME budget tube gear sounds bad. They typically achieve the “tube tone” by “starving” The tube circuit of power to get the tubes to overload at a very low threshold.

Check out the Plugin Alliance Black Box, itÂ’s one of my favorites.

If youÂ’re using Pro Tools you could also just turn on HEAT.

thanks Duple. Not on protools. Mixcraft. Yeah there's a plethora of saturation plugins , many free. So then are compression, eq'ing, and saturation the only ingredients , with sat being the key? Now I'm remembering, but I thought I read that's the way the budget Art tube's worked , but the art mpa ii's feed the tubes voltage different...normal... ? They even have a model that has adat so it must have enough quality to warrant good a/d converters. Are some plugins, for example, good enough to create a tube mic sound from a decent ldc mic, perhaps negating the need for a tube vocal mic ?...just trying to get some data points in the wilderness...since I don't have anything to compare to, but I'm getting nice results from just those three plugins on vocals. And to a lesser extent on guitar. Sometimes it's justperfect for turning a piezo into a decent acoustic tone. Maybe some re-guitar on top. Any other mysteries? ....like to carry me from 'niceresults' to 'unxxxbelievable!!!' ? I guess I'm trying to talk myself out of materialistically seeking the 'tube warmth' path, which needs so much more $ ie tubemics and preamps etc....when a plugin and a decent ldc can suffice, and what's the magic sauce inside the box. Maybe Dell will make a tube computer huh? solve all the problems...

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by kurth

thanks Duple. Not on protools. Mixcraft. Yeah there's a plethora of saturation plugins , many free. So then are compression, eq'ing, and saturation the only ingredients , with sat being the key?

Well, saturation is certainly what's missing in digital...tube or transformer style. For the longest time we were after cleaner & cleaner hardware, and then digital made us realize that some non-itineraries are pleasant (or at least familiar & comfortable) to our ears.

Originally Posted by kurth

Now I'm remembering, but I thought I read that's the way the budget Art tube's worked , but the art mpa ii's feed the tubes voltage different...normal... ? They even have a model that has adat so it must have enough quality to warrant good a/d converters

ADAT ports are cheap to add to anything (and kind of really outdated these days), so I wouldn't look at that as a sign of good conversion.

The ART Pro MPA & Pro MPA II are exactly the models I was referring to when I said that some hardware starves the tubes to get tube color. Those are cathode followers with lower plate voltage to create distortion at much lower volumes. But, so many of the cheaper options do the same thing, not just ART.

Originally Posted by kurth

Are some plugins, for example, good enough to create a tube mic sound from a decent ldc mic, perhaps negating the need for a tube vocal mic ?...just trying to get some data points in the wilderness...since I don't have anything to compare to, but I'm getting nice results from just those three plugins on vocals. And to a lesser extent on guitar. Sometimes it's justperfect for turning a piezo into a decent acoustic tone. Maybe some re-guitar on top. Any other mysteries? ....like to carry me from 'niceresults' to 'unxxxbelievable!!!' ?

I actually prefer tape saturation on acoustic guitar. Tube saturation is nice, but I find tape does some beautiful things to acoustic stringed instruments. My goto tape plugin is McDSP Analog Channel 202. That said, yes, you can get the results you want fro just some well done plugins (which will be far cheaper than good hardware).

But, not to discourage you, the 2 biggest issues most people have recording at home are [1] lack of a good sounding live room, and [2] lack of experience. #1 is the biggest difference in making a mediocre recording into a great recording. #2 should be obvious, but it deserves to be said that engineering is a skill that takes practice.

As far as mysteries, if you have access to only 3 plugins: a good EQ, a good compressor & something for saturation, you should be able to get great results. (ok...maybe you need a reverb too...but you those are the channel/track plugins). Remember most great recording were made using only the EQ & compressor on the console...sometimes adding an outboard piece in the 2-bus (like an LA2A or Pultec).

Originally Posted by kurth

I'm trying to talk myself out of materialistically seeking the 'tube warmth' path, which needs so much more $ ie tubemics and preamps etc....when a plugin and a decent ldc can suffice, and what's the magic sauce inside the box. Maybe Dell will make a tube computer huh? solve all the problems...

I don't think a tube pre is necessary for a great recording. I have several, and I typically use the preamps on my Metric Halo over everything else I have. They are big, clean & open. Honestly, if you have a decent preamp, a good mic is a better investment IMO. I'm particularly fond of mics that have transformers.

[keith.rogers]

I use the Exciter module in iZotope's Ozone and/or Neutron "plugins" if I'm trying to add something, but most, ok *all*, of the time, I'm going to flip through the Logic Pro compressor models and find something there to start with.

But, having had a really nice tube mic to play with for a while, I'd say you need to get a pretty good LDC and get your room squared away to get that sort of vibe.

(I did have a non-tube hardware preamp for a good while, but it was a bit more trouble than I found worthwhile - the Triton FEThead is easier to live with for when I need an actual boost.)

[Doug Young]

There are so many of these. Ozone has a lot of options as Keith mentioned.

I use Kazrog's True Iron (transformer). FabFilter's Saturn has all kinds of options and sounds very good. I also like UAD's Ampex tape emulator. Kush Bliss is very fat-sounding.

There are other things that aren't saturation that can help make a recording smoother, like Soothe.

As noted, I think these can't be fixes for recordings in poor acoustics, but if you have something very clean and want to "warm" them up, a little bit can be nice.

[kurth]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

There are so many of these. Ozone has a lot of options as Keith mentioned.

I use Kazrog's True Iron (transformer). FabFilter's Saturn has all kinds of options and sounds very good. I also like UAD's Ampex tape emulator. Kush Bliss is very fat-sounding.

There are other things that aren't saturation that can help make a recording smoother, like Soothe.

As noted, I think these can't be fixes for recordings in poor acoustics, but if you have something very clean and want to "warm" them up, a little bit can be nice.

thanks doug...I had never heard of Soothe. I'll give it a try.

[kurth]

Originally Posted by keith.rogers

I use the Exciter module in iZotope's Ozone and/or Neutron "plugins" if I'm trying to add something, but most, ok *all*, of the time, I'm going to flip through the Logic Pro compressor models and find something there to start with.

But, having had a really nice tube mic to play with for a while, I'd say you need to get a pretty good LDC and get your room squared away to get that sort of vibe.

(I did have a non-tube hardware preamp for a good while, but it was a bit more trouble than I found worthwhile - the Triton FEThead is easier to live with for when I need an actual boost.)

thanks Keith...I'll give Exciter a tryout.

[min7b5]

I like Fabfilter's Saturn 2 quite a bit. It's very easy to make a big mess of things for sure, but it has a lot of great options to be very subtle with tube, tape, and transformer emulations as well.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by kurth

thanks doug...I had never heard of Soothe. I'll give it a try.

I use True Iron and Soothe as well. Soothe is a bit spendy, but worth it IMHO. I use it to tame harshness, as a "frequency ducker" to keep tracks out of each other's way, and it even makes a great de-esser.

[Gordon Currie]

+1 for Plugin Alliance Black Box.

[Sasquatchian]

Everyone has a different way to go about this, but every point in the signal and processing path has its own effect on the sound.

I generally start off with a Lauten Audio tube mic which is just magical and super adjustable and then I'm typically going into UAD's Neve 88SR Unison pre-amp plug-in, which ads that special something at the pre-amp stage. There are lots and lots of plugins that will add that analog tube warmth once the audio has been recorded. Two particularly great sounding compressor plug-ins are UAD's Fairchild Tube Compressor as well as their Empirical Labs EL8 Distressor compressor, both of which have their own special character and both of which just make things sound better.

These are just a few things that are working phenomenally well for me.

[kurth]

thanks everyone. I gotta basic question. where do you put the sat plugin in the chain ? At the very beginning, or after the compression and eq ? Usually juggling vst's in my chains has very little audible effect, for example. thanks k

[kurth]

Originally Posted by Sasquatchian

Everyone has a different way to go about this, but every point in the signal and processing path has its own effect on the sound.

I generally start off with a Lauten Audio tube mic which is just magical and super adjustable and then I'm typically going into UAD's l pre-amp plug-in, which ads that special something at the pre-amp stage. There are lots and lots of plugins that will add that analog tube warmth once the audio has been recorded. Two particularly great sounding compressor plug-ins are UAD's Fairchild Tube Compressor as well as their Empirical Labs EL8 Distressor compressor, both of which have their own special character and both of which just make things sound better.

These are just a few things that are working phenomenally well for me.

Sas....which Lauten do you own ? I'm jealous. So the conventional AGF wisdom is forget a tube mic if you don't have a treated room. I hate treated rooms. They're antithetical to creativity. They remind me of being trapped on a spaceship. So is that true for you ? Thanks for the plugins k

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by kurth

thanks everyone. I gotta basic question. where do you put the sat plugin in the chain ? At the very beginning, or after the compression and eq ? Usually juggling vst's in my chains has very little audible effect, for example. thanks k

There's no set answer. The key is to understand what each effect does and then chain them to create the sound you want. It's similar to the frequent question electric guitarists ask about effect pedal order: do you do want to overdrive your phase shifter or phase shift your overdrive? Each sounds different, so try them and see what makes the sound you want.

These "warmth" plugins, unless overused, are quite subtle, so you may not hear much difference, but the idea is similar - do you want add warmth to, for example, a guitar, and then add reverb to that? Or do you want to add reverb to the guitar and warm up the mix of guitar+reverb? And so on.