HD-28: The "Action" Edition

[Honkycat]

Or as Silly Moustache put it, “ the dusty end”.

[vintage40s]

Originally Posted by janinep7

... 2) Always carry a ruled index card in your purse. You never know when you might be called upon to measure and compare guitar action...

Ruling and using an index card seems hard to do. I use this metal string gauge:
https://www.amazon.com/Baroque-Preci...s%2C171&sr=8-5

On my D-35:

Thanks to everyone who responded, and also tried playing barre chords high on the neck on your own guitars. I think I can close this experiment for now, and get back to the fun stuff of learning new songs. I'm feeling very Johnny Cash at the moment; Folsom Prison Blues. That's a good song for the "rosewood rumble." This guy's tutorials on You Tube are THE BOMB!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxJ...rt6zYWtCgaVUUw

I'm sticking with the plan to just play it as it is and keep loving it, until or unless I hit some obstacle that makes me think I should do something else.
That was the original idea, only now it's grounded in *actual* index card-based science, as opposed to just my intuition.

The most interesting and valuable aspect of the whole factory action vs. set up conversation is it forced me to think about my playing style, which to date has been totally helter-skelter, I mean "eclectic." I had to ask myself some specific questions, and also come up with specific answers, even though it's guaranteed that the answers will change over time. (look at last year vs. this year - two different worlds) Measuring the action on three different guitars, playing them against each other, thinking about how each feels, what things each guitar really shines at... priceless experience!

I'm going to pass over the NGD baton now to the next ecstatic AGFer. I'm sorry if I've been hogging the airtime. I was just trying to follow the AGF by-law that states, "The duration of the NGD shall be directly reflective of the size of the guitar purchased." The HD-28 is so freaking big, I've started calling it "The Beast." I'm short; it dwarfs me. My dad says it looks like I've joined a mariachi band. (He calls 'em like he sees 'em.) It did not look that big in store. I swear.

I also want to say congratulations and play them in good health to all the other AGFers who have had their own NGDs while I've been over here in a rosewood haze. And if you need help measuring your guitar's action or trying to decide if you want to get a set up, I'll be right there with my index card to assist you.

Originally Posted by vintage40s

Ruling and using an index card seems hard to do. I use this metal string gauge:
https://www.amazon.com/Baroque-Preci...s%2C171&sr=8-5

On my D-35:

Using the actual, appropriate tool would just be way too sensible. (Running now to put one in my Amazon cart. Thx.)

[Aimelie]

Originally Posted by janinep7

Using the actual, appropriate tool would just be way too sensible. (Running now to put one in my Amazon cart. Thx.)

Thank goodness for this.

I can unclench now.

[Guilty Spark]

I use the same metal string gauge as vintage40s (and have pretty much the exact same action on my HD-28).
Martingitdave had the best suggestion, IMO: try 12.5s (Martin brand sound great on my HD-28) and if that doesn't do it, try light 12s.
As for barre chords at the 10th fret (and above!?!??!) my suggestion would be to find a better voicing for the chord, as I can't imagine a barre chord being the best sounding way up at the 10th and above. Ditch the barre chord.
Generally, I'm not of fan of full barre chords on an acoustic guitar any way. YMMV.

[KenL]

The only barre chord I play up on the "dusty end" (lol!) is a C at the eighth fret. And the only time I do that is as a final "flourish" for a song in the key of C.

Beyond that, we're talking jazz, and who needs that?

[Arapaho G]

I'm no expert but I can tell you this, generally speaking for myself:

Barre chords at the 10th fret and higher almost never.

Finger picking barre chords is difficult, until it isn't.

Lower action = easier to play.

Fingerstyle allows lower action than flat picking.

That said, play some guitars with lower action than yours and see what you think.

[davidd]

First, why on earth are you using medium strings when you are basically learning guitar?

Try 12 gauge or even better 11's and I bet you will be surprised at how they feel without much sacrifice to the tone. Once you get the hand strength and muscle memory happening then think about moving up to a heavier gauge if desired.

Why are you playing a barre chord at the 10th fret? The more experience you get the more you will realize that pros use block chords and triads ( 4 note triads also...) whenever possible. I've been at it for 60 years almost and I play a full barre chord only when necessary.

Martin generally has high action from the factory, but has been known recently to quite often underset the neck which doesn't leave very much saddle adjustment. This is why whenever buying a new guitar I always check out all aspects of a guitars geometry before purchasing.

If you have a delicate touch very low action should be achievable on any new Martin guitar. 4/64"-5/64".

Take it to a tech and have them set it up.

[GKing34]

Aside from the F chord at the first fret, I never play bar chords on an acoustic. Open chords just sound more musical to me.

Originally Posted by davidd

First, why on earth are you using medium strings when you are basically learning guitar?

I like the way they sound on my dreads. I don't find them difficult to play. I keep lights on the 000-18. I think lights sound good on that guitar. I've been playing over a year, which isn't long, but isn't guitar a "lifelong learning" pursuit?

Try 12 gauge or even better 11's and I bet you will be surprised at how they feel without much sacrifice to the tone. Once you get the hand strength and muscle memory happening then think about moving up to a heavier gauge if desired.

I'm going to think about different strings for the HD-28 when the current ones need changing.


PS You should hear how "Magic Bus" sounds on this thing! You can feel the rumble in chest when you play it. I am not touching that low E string. It's amazing!!! This guitar *loves* E major chords.

Why are you playing a barre chord at the 10th fret? The more experience you get the more you will realize that pros use block chords and triads ( 4 note triads also...) whenever possible. I've been at it for 60 years almost and I play a full barre chord only when necessary.

It was for scientific research purposes only. Normally I don't go higher than a C barre chord at the 8th fret, if I am playing barre chords.

Martin generally has high action from the factory, but has been known recently to quite often underset the neck which doesn't leave very much saddle adjustment. This is why whenever buying a new guitar I always check out all aspects of a guitars geometry before purchasing.

It doesn't feel high to me. I've elaborated on this already in other threads.

If you have a delicate touch very low action should be achievable on any new Martin guitar. 4/64"-5/64".

I would not call my playing style "delicate." I like a good thumpy bass and can strum pretty vigorously. I think the mediums on the HD-28 give it a really good twang for country music.

Take it to a tech and have them set it up.

Maybe at some point? Not immediately.

Are there any other concerns I can address for you? Let me grab my ruled index card. :0)

[Bob Womack]

It is your guitar. You are the only person you have to please. Enjoy your guitar and do with it as you please!

Bob

You should hear how "Magic Bus" sounds on this guitar. You can feel that bass rumble in your chest when you play it. I'm not touching that low E string. This guitar LOVES Emajor chords.

[CharlieBman]

I prefer higher action on all my guitars. But I'm generally a strummer and flat picker who gets aggressive at times. My setup on my HD-28 looks like this:

12th fret action:
.110 to .85 from low to high E

Nut slots/1st fret action:
.022 to .018 from low to high E

Truss relief:
.10

I also made a new nut to bring the low E just a hair closer to the fret bevel and the high E another hair away from the fret bevel. I have small hands and with a 1.75 nut width this makes using bar chords with the thumb easier.

I use medium lights 12 - 54's. I never bar chord past the high C (8th fret) but do play leads up to the 15th fret. I also use a capo as needed up to the 5th fret. All my guitars are setup similarly. The setup suits my playing style perfectly.

Most guitars straight from the factory need to good setup. If you can get by without one, that's fine. But if you're concerned about action at all, I wouldn't hesitate to find a good tech or luthier capable of setting up the guitar based on your playing style. Happy playing!

[mcduffnw]

Always trust your intuition...your "inner guitar gut"...over the "science" on what feels, plays, and sounds good to you.

Guitars, like the music they make, are very intuitive, emotionally visceral creatures, even though they are made of solid materials...because those materials, the woods they are made of, came from living, breathing beings.

No two trees were/are ever the same as their brothers and sisters in the forest or grove they came from. No two pieces of spruce, or cedar, or redwood, or rosewood, or mahogany or koa or what have you, will or do sound the same as one another when you make them into a guitar. As I think you have found out, line up 5 or 6 HD-28's and though they will all have a "familial" HD-28 tone, they will each have their own individual tonal identities. Not unlike if you and I play the same song, in a similar way, it will sound very different, because we are unique in how we feel, play, and thus make music.

I used to be very analytical about guitars many many years ago, but I found through time that guitars just don't work that way, so I learned to stop trying to use my "data brain" to figure out all things guitar, and instead learned to use my "feel/intuitive brain" for all things guitar, and it made all the difference in the world for me, in both understanding my relationship to any given guitar, and also to the music I can make with it.

Enjoy your wonderful HD-28. There is not a better guitar in all the world if it is the "right one" for you, and it sure sounds like it is!

Trust in what you feel, what your musical heart and soul tells you is right...for it will always point you to true north...


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher