Playing bass like a bass, not a guitar

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

The bass player you want on your next session/gig should be doing both as a matter of course: providing harmonic structure to support the melody and a firm rhythmic pulse - without either of which all but the most rudimentary arrangements fall apart. FWIW the best jazz players understood the importance of their function back in the days when upright bass ruled the bandstands (and, other than in a small-club setting, was more felt than heard), and IME those who have truly mastered the concept tend to be jazzcats either by training or exposure...

Jazz is outside my wheelhouse as I have no interest in it.

I worked as a bass player for almost 3 decades playing rock, folk, Old time, Cajun and Zydeco.

Unless I'm playing guitar, mandolin, or other instrument and it's absolutely necessary to have a different bass player I by far prefer my own playing.

[mr. beaumont]

I play bass occasionally in bands, and the best advice I ever got was "put a pitch to the kick drum."

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I play bass occasionally in bands, and the best advice I ever got was "put a pitch to the kick drum."

Or there's the slightly more Zen "Be the kick drum."

[nightchef]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

Or there's the slightly more Zen "Be the kick drum."

That’s fine for some styles and situations, but it’s a pretty narrow brief. And most of the bass players who really inspire me (Entwistle, McCartney, Sklar, Kaye/Osborn, Jamerson/Babbitt, etc.) have happily ignored it whenever the music took their brains/fingers elsewhere.

[Rudy4]

"Drums and bass" ARE the rhythm section in the context of modern rock. If a bass player doesn't want to focus on supporting song structure there are plenty of creative ways to play outside of that role.

Be aware that if you have need to be THAT bass player that some of us jokingly refer to them as "frustrated lead guitar players". Playing melodic bass is the classic "jam killer" in many band situations.

More mature players who work ensemble usually grow out of that and figure out their support role.

I love to sit around and play melodic lines on my fretless, but if I'm playing in a band situation then I change my M.O. to something that fits rhythmic support. If you're playing bass in a band situation that doesn't include drums then you ARE the rhythm section.

[Brent Hahn]

I think it's interesting that the handful of bass players who are all over Youtube with their tutorials and paid lessons are all manic slappers who don't seem to actually play on records, or in bands, or in a manner that anyone other than other slappers actually likes.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by nightchef

That’s fine for some styles and situations, but it’s a pretty narrow brief. And most of the bass players who really inspire me (Entwistle, McCartney, Sklar, Kaye/Osborn, Jamerson/Babbitt, etc.) have happily ignored it whenever the music took their brains/fingers elsewhere.

Oh, it's not saying ONLY do that. But do that.

McCartney, Sklar, Kaye, Jamerson are/were MASTERS of it.

[nightchef]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Oh, it's not saying ONLY do that. But do that.

McCartney, Sklar, Kaye, Jamerson are/were MASTERS of it.

I'm a bit at a loss as to how the sample you present supports your point, unless by "be the kick drum" you just mean "be rhythmically precise and solid."

In fact, if you listen to Jamerson's part in its original context, it's a really good example of what I meant by "happily ignoring" the advice to align with the kick drum. I mean, no doubt a fair amount of his articulations are happening on the same beat division as kick drum hits, but it doesn't sound like that's where he's focused at all.

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Oh, it's not saying ONLY do that. But do that.

McCartney, Sklar, Kaye, Jamerson are/were MASTERS of it.

Wow, that's just insane playing! In just the isolated track it's hard to figure out where he is with the drums though. Here's the full track.



That's a fairly bass line, and my dumb fingers would be twisted in knots trying to play it. I hear an elastic relationship with the drums. He's not playing free time or counter rhythms, but his relationship to the drums slides around the beat in various ways. On the other hand he's playing the changes and respecting the melody line.

[Brent Hahn]

It helps to bear in mind that Motown arrangements were aimed at AM radio, so the groove had to work with no discernible low end. Jamerson was a monster, but those arrangements would have gotten the job done with or without him, and he wouldn't have been able to do "that thing" in a lot of other situations.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by nightchef

I'm a bit at a loss as to how the sample you present supports your point, unless by "be the kick drum" you just mean "be rhythmically precise and solid."

In fact, if you listen to Jamerson's part in its original context, it's a really good example of what I meant by "happily ignoring" the advice to align with the kick drum. I mean, no doubt a fair amount of his articulations are happening on the same beat division as kick drum hits, but it doesn't sound like that's where he's focused at all.

He's completely locked in with the drums, IMHO. That's why the tune GROOVES.

Here's another example of "busy" playing that is still locked in.

[815C]

I haven't read all the responses and this may have already been mentioned.

Paul McCartney is one of the tastiest bass players around (listen to his lines on Penny Lane). I would recommend learning his bass lines.

Check out this book, The Beatles Complete Scores, which contains 1,136 pages of transcriptions of every instrument for every song they recorded (including bass tab). The only down side of this book is the print is rather small and at times I have to grab a magnifying glass.

[frankmcr]

John Entwhistle. (Audio starts at 1:10)

[frankmcr]

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by 815C

Paul McCartney is one of the tastiest bass players around (listen to his lines on Penny Lane).

One of the things he figured out is when to play "short" and when to play "long." Listen to him a bit and you'll see what I mean.