Any real need to glue a nut in place?

hesson11 · #1 03-17-2012, 12:23 PM

On classical guitars, nuts are seldom glued into place. But steel-string guitars seem to always be glued. Is there any particular reason for gluing the nuts (other than the obvious reason that glued-in nuts are more convenient when changing strings)? THANKS.
-Bob

gitnoob · #2 03-17-2012, 12:27 PM

Nope. Just helps prevent the nut from getting lost in the carpet.

GibbyPrague · #3 03-17-2012, 12:28 PM

Not sure, but I can tell you my Furch doenst have a glued on nut.

Wade Hampton · #4 03-17-2012, 12:32 PM

One possible advantage to gluing the nut in place might be to keep the nut from shifting when some of the strings are off but the remaining ones are at full tension, as can happen when restringing or doing other minor maintenance. As to why steel string instruments often have glued in nuts but nylon string instruments usually don't, there's three times the tension on steel strings, so an unbalanced situation like the one I described can easily yank the nut out of place.

Just a thought...

whm

stanron · #5 03-17-2012, 12:40 PM

I used to own a guitar with an unglued nut. Perhaps it was a poor guitar but I remember that the slightest knock would result in the nut moving sideways and all the strings would go out of tune. It happened time after time. Eventually I put the smallest dab of glue under it and the problem was solved.

wrench68 · #6 03-17-2012, 12:44 PM

I don't want to glue in a nut because I want to maximize downforce through the nut to the neck. Gluing to the end of the fingerboard with hard glue diverts some of the downforce. If someone really wants to secure the nut, I use very thin rubber-based PSA.

gitnoob · #7 03-17-2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrench68

I don't want to glue in a nut because I want to maximize downforce through the nut to the neck.

I remember that you had measured the neck resonance on some guitars. Isn't it a fairly low frequency? Can you perceive the difference between a glued-nut vs a not-glued-nut?

My assumption has always been that the nut only determines the vibrating length of the string.

In fact, I recently built a zero-fret uke, and the nut does almost nothing now.

AGnut · #8 03-17-2012, 01:06 PM

I ONLY use hide glue on my nuts and it makes all my guitars sound amazing! Just kidding... I put a drop or two of Titebond on my nuts to keep them in place. It is just so annoying to change strings when the nut slides around.

wrench68 · #9 03-17-2012, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gitnoob

I remember that you had measured the neck resonance on some guitars. Isn't it a fairly low frequency? Can you perceive the difference between a glued-nut vs a not-glued-nut?

My assumption has always been that the nut only determines the vibrating length of the string.

In fact, I recently built a zero-fret uke, and the nut does almost nothing now.

I've also heard the claim that the nut has only one job, but I'm not so sure this is the case. My observation between glued and non-glued nuts suggest stronger harmonic performance. My (untested) theory is that the total spring mass system of a guitar can be analogous to a circuit, and a poor transfer of energy at any of its joints (nut, neck, saddle, bridge, and even a loose fret for fretted notes) impairs the circuit. I'm not sure the difference between a good nut/fit and an extreme nut/fit is significant, but I know the difference between a poor nut/fit/glueglob and extreme nut/fit is worth some effort. I admit going to the extreme making and fitting nuts. I don't even try to make money on them, I just try to make sure they don't limit the improvements of other work I've done.

Yes, I tested some necks, and would like to test more, particulary multi-piece and CF. I found un-reinforced mahogany necks (with light strings tuned to standard pitch, but muted) to be in the 210-220 Hz range. I've tested only a couple multi piece layups and CF, but they were 440 Hz to 550 Hz.

It makes sense to me that the nut in a zero fret uke no longer does anything because the zero fret takes over the job of circuit connection from the nut.

BluesBelly · #10 03-17-2012, 01:48 PM

In my experiments an unglued nut on steel string can produce low frequency vibration noises and shift unwantedly side to side producing a rough feel at the edges and pulling the instrument slightly out of tune. Correct glueing of the nut involves a very small drop of glue on the finger board side of the nut and never where the nut contacts the neck. Bear in mind the nut is only active on open string strums. When the string is fretted the fret becomes the nut and the nut serves only to hold the string in place and does not contribute toward the tone as much as one would assume.

Blues

Ed422 · #11 03-17-2012, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGnut

I put a drop or two of Titebond on my nuts to keep them in place.

Doesn't that cause chafing? <insert rimshot>

When I do new nuts, I put a single drop of CA on and tighten the strings. I have at least the 2 e's ready to drop in and tighten. The strings hold it in the right place for the glue to set and a little sideways tap knocks it loose when I need to take it off.

Ed

Laurent Brondel · #12 03-17-2012, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed422

When I do new nuts, I put a single drop of CA on and tighten the strings. I have at least the 2 e's ready to drop in and tighten. The strings hold it in the right place for the glue to set and a little sideways tap knocks it loose when I need to take it off.

Exactly, except I use either HHG or wood glue, same intent though: the nut comes off with a tiny blow.

zabdart · #13 03-17-2012, 02:38 PM

It's to keep the nut from falling out when you change your strings and getting eaten by the squirrels, silly!

hesson11 · #14 03-17-2012, 03:30 PM

Thanks, folks. Interesting perspectives.
-Bob

gtrmkr22 · #15 03-17-2012, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrench68

I don't want to glue in a nut because I want to maximize downforce through the nut to the neck. Gluing to the end of the fingerboard with hard glue diverts some of the downforce. If someone really wants to secure the nut, I use very thin rubber-based PSA.

Sorry but I have to disagree. If the nut is cut properly and sized properly, then it will sit completely flush in the slot, with plenty of downforce. The glue doesn't affect any downforce at all, assuming the nut is glued while strings are placed on the instrument. Titebond works great and you only need a drop or two. It wont cure immediately like CA and when it does cure will simply keep the nut from moving around. Thats the only purpose.

The downforce is the exact same with or without glue. And unglued nuts can cause resonate frequencies and unwanted movement and tuning stabilities. Best to just put a tiny drop and not worry about it.