I was down to one open outlet...

[jim1960]

My two racks each have cheap Furman boxes in them, each box having 8 outlets. I was down to just one available outlet of the sixteen, so this felt like a good time to upgrade since I've been meaning to tear down my rack, reorder things slightly, and I had an idea about how to better organize the cables on the back. I'll either get to it this weekend or it will have to wait for a month because my weekends are busy for a bit.

Anyway, two Black Lion Audio PG-2 units showed up today. Each has 12 outlets on the back and another two on the front, along with a USB charger. There's also an xlr connector on the front that can be used for an xlr lamp. Those things seem ridiculously over-priced though. If anyone knows of any inexpensive ones, I'm listening.

[runamuck]

Yeah, for what they do they are really expensive. Many of the doodads they provide are not necessary.

I think Furman is the best bet.

[Joseph Hanna]

The PG-2 is pretty standard and perhaps overpriced, depending on one's needs. The PG-2R, however, claims a +- 2 volt regulator. If that's accurate, the PG-2R would be well worth it for some.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by runamuck

I think Furman is the best bet.

Furman doesn't have a unit with 12 outlets on the back at that price point.

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

The PG-2 is pretty standard and perhaps overpriced, depending on one's needs. The PG-2R, however, claims a +- 2 volt regulator. If that's accurate, the PG-2R would be well worth it for some.

"Pretty standard" is all I need, especially when the PG-2R is $1200. I want to add a pair of the Audioscape Pultec-type eq to my rig at some point. I was going to need this power thingy upgrade eventually.

[Mobilemike]

Dang that’s pretty expensive! I like the rackmount power conditioners for their form factor and having the main power switch in the front as well as the surge protection. However I’ve never heard any difference between the cheaper Furman models and those that claim to do a lot more “cleaning” of the power.

Currently I have a couple of Furman PL-8’s that are under $200. They have 8 outlets and I just plug in a normal power strip to the back when I need more.

[KevWind]

I am no electrical engineer so can only go on Mfgs claims and user feed back

Seems to me that the term "expensive" is subjective and relative to ones needs and how stable the grid is that it's tied into

For example Furman has units from $25 up to $6620
Furman makes a simple voltage regulator @ +/- 5 v. for $400 but it is not a conditioner/regulator. Furmans conditioner/regulator is $1200 with 8 outlets also +/- 5v like the Black Lion PG2R cost wise, but the PG2R it has 12 outlets and is +/- 2 v

[dnf777]

Did you say “inexpensive” and “rack gear” in the same post??

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

The PG-2R, however, claims a +- 2 volt regulator.

Most non-tube electronic devices use switching power supplies, which, by design, provide pretty effective voltage regulation.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by phcorrigan

Most non-tube electronic devices use switching power supplies, which, by design, provide pretty effective voltage regulation.

Getting in the way-back machine and going back maybe 15-18 years, when we moved the studio/bay from the Radke lot to Topanga Canyon, we immediately had a bevy of seemingly insurmountable problems. The first thing that smoked was my beloved Korg Karma. Pre-amps were distorting, and a guitar amp we used regularly just sounded horrific. The guitar amp was running red-hot at idle. We couldn't get anything to sound anywhere near normal. Admittedly, we were way up yonder in Topanga Canyon, but it was beyond obvious we had voltage regulation problems that needed to be addressed immediately. We quickly talked to others who were doing production in the Canyon and got some solid ideas for voltage regulators/stabilizers. I'm not on that audio team any longer, but to the best of my knowledge, they're still up there, purring along.

Voltage stabilization may not be for everyone, but without a doubt, it's a tangible solution for others.

[KevWind]

Just an observation about possible merit of power conditioning/cleaning aspect from lay-person and an incident at our local open mic

About 3-4 weeks ago at the JH Hootenanny/open mic ( where we do not have any power /conditioner,) there had been an electrical storm going moving through and while no direct hit or surge issue or anything,,, BUT after it had moved further off some miles away intermittently we were getting a crackling coming through the speakers.
Both of us doing the sound were trying to run down the issue and did the typical diagnostics check the mic and speaker cables, switch mic input positions, etc etc. and could not find anything , but it continued to be an intermittent issue. We thought perhaps something was wrong with the mixer either in it's output circuit or maybe the phantom power .The next week we brought a back up mixer. BUT the issue was gone and the original mixer has worked fin since then. Our conclusion was that the storm had somehow effected the local power grid and the power was dirty for we presume only that evening ??

Methinks maybe it may be like humidity concerns for acoustic guitars it's not an issue until it is

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

we moved the studio/bay from the Radke lot to Topanga Canyon, we immediately had a bevy of seemingly insurmountable problems. The first thing that smoked was my beloved Korg Karma. Pre-amps were distorting, and a guitar amp we used regularly just sounded horrific. The guitar amp was running red-hot at idle. We couldn't get anything to sound anywhere near normal. Admittedly, we were way up yonder in Topanga Canyon, but it was beyond obvious we had voltage regulation problems that needed to be addressed immediately.

Voltage stabilization may not be for everyone, but without a doubt, it's a tangible solution for others.

Originally Posted by KevWind

. Our conclusion was that the storm had somehow effected the local power grid and the power was dirty for we presume only that evening ??

Methinks maybe it may be like humidity concerns for acoustic guitars it's not an issue until it is

This is a subject matter that I had not given any thought to in many years. And now I am wondering if I too might need more protection/conditioning.
I live in Northridge. Just 200 yards up from the Water and Power plant. Topanga Canyon, famous in the 60's and 70's for housing various musicians and clubs is only 17 miles away. But again...Topanga is another world of canyon and hilly residents. I live in a completely flat grid.

I do have a couple of computer power strips that I am plugged into for my recording and computer. And I have an 90's Chandler CP1200 that has just been sitting unused for nearly 30 years.

So for a guy like me, who will only use a max of 4 mics at a time. With just two preamps and interface:
Should I be considering better power conditioners? Or does my location near a power plant suffice?
How does one know? after all with no baseline I might not know if I have a small amount of distortion or not.
Is there a way to measure the power incoming to determine?

Joseph Hanna's description of distortion and more has me thinking. How would I really know.

Can power effect other tonal values? Frequencies? Dynamics?
How do we know what grade of power conditioner I should purchase?

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

This is a subject matter that I had not given any thought to in many years. And now I am wondering if I too might need more protection/conditioning.
I live in Northridge. Just 200 yards up from the Water and Power plant. Topanga Canyon, famous in the 60's and 70's for housing various musicians and clubs is only 17 miles away. But again...Topanga is another world of canyon and hilly residents. I live in a completely flat grid.

I do have a couple of computer power strips that I am plugged into for my recording and computer. And I have an 90's Chandler CP1200 that has just been sitting unused for nearly 30 years.

So for a guy like me, who will only use a max of 4 mics at a time. With just two preamps and interface:
Should I be considering better power conditioners? Or does my location near a power plant suffice?
How does one know? after all with no baseline I might not know if I have a small amount of distortion or not.
Is there a way to measure the power incoming to determine?

Joseph Hanna's description of distortion and more has me thinking. How would I really know.

Can power effect other tonal values? Frequencies? Dynamics?
How do we know what grade of power conditioner I should purchase?

Well, first, you can use a voltage meter to check at home, although I probably would ask an electrician to do it for you. Secondarily, and as you may know, very little works great up in Topanga. The topography, in and of itself, creates a bevy of problems (and not limited to electricity), so I certainly would not compare Northridge to Topanga in terms of well-regulated electricity. My suspicion is Northridge, like most, if not all of the Valley, is more susceptible to brown-outs during August/Sept/Oct. I will mention that the problems we had in Topanga were not subtle and immediately noticeable with virtually all components. I'd think you'd be fine without any regulation Northridge, but if curious enough, ask an electrition friend to check it out.

[phcorrigan]

If you can find a used copy of the long-out-of-print "PC Power Protection" by Mark Waller (Howard W. Sams, publisher, 1988) it has a wealth of information that applies to most modern audio equipment as well, since most devices now use switching power supplies.

I contacted Mark about ten years ago about writing a revised version, but he said he is now in a completely different line of work.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by phcorrigan

If you can find a used copy of the long-out-of-print "PC Power Protection" by Mark Waller (Howard W. Sams, publisher, 1988) it has a wealth of information that applies to most modern audio equipment as well, since most devices now use switching power supplies.

I found one and it is $6.55 with shipping.

But it is 220 pages long. Quite honestly I would not be able to devote the kind of time it would take to read. And Reading is one thing, but Understanding technical applications and how to apply, is another world of hurt.

If it can be summarized, what is your take on Mark Waller's findings? Do Power conditioners make a difference, that most of us don't know about for recording? Even in a stable power grid?(as my area might be)...... Or not?

https://www.amazon.com/PC-Power-Prot.../dp/0672226375

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

I found one and it is $6.55 with shipping.

But it is 220 pages long. Quite honestly I would not be able to devote the kind of time it would take to read. And Reading is one thing, but Understanding technical applications and how to apply, is another world of hurt.

If it can be summarized, what is your take on Mark Waller's findings? Do Power conditioners make a difference, that most of us don't know about for recording? Even in a stable power grid?(as my area might be)...... Or not?

https://www.amazon.com/PC-Power-Prot.../dp/0672226375

There is no easy answer. In my opinion, in most circumstances power conditioners aren't really necessary. Switching power supplies will handle a lot of electrical issues, but there are some situations where they won't, such as excessive voltage variation and certain kinds of electrical noise and interference. In those cases, some type of power protection device would be necessary. Just like any problem situation, however, there is no "one size fits all" solution for all power problems. Depending on the issues you're having, a power conditioner may or may not help. In other words, before you can address a power problem you need to know what it is. A good power conditioner can help with noise and voltage fluctuation issues, assuming you have those issues and they occur within the range handled by a particular device. Sometimes they help and sometimes they don't. I personally feel that they are over-sold and not needed by many who buy them, but that's just a personal opinion from someone who has been working with digital electronics for over forty years. Also, IMO, when it comes to power protection products, there is a fair amount of snake oil being sold. Caveat Emptor.