Adjust which one first. Saddle height or nut height.

[MC5C]

I see them as independent, to a great degree. Nut height is relative to fret height, and fret height only. I set mine by fretting at the third and setting minimal clearance over the first fret. If the player does a lot of light finger picking in first position this is good, if the player does a lot of heavy playing or loud "cowboy chord" work, I will raise this a few thou. But it is independent of relief or saddle height.

Relief I set by fretting at 1 and 12 and measuring at the 6th fret. I tend to do zero to .005", but I don't stress over it. I can't tell what it is by playing, so I guess if it's in there somewhere I'm happy. I do like to have a little, only to prove there is no back-bow. Relief is set relative to the neck and only the neck, fretted at two frets so the nut is out of the equation as is the saddle.

Saddle height is simple, set it so the action at the 12th fret is where the player wants it. I tend towards a "fat" 1/16" on the high E, a squish more on the low E, but it's quite dependent on playing style. Action height is determined, in a perfect world, by the saddle height alone, but in reality is affected by the nut height (a very little bit) and by the relief (not really the relief but the angle that the neck has approaching the body, which is affected by the relief setting) so since those two things affect action height, I set the saddle height last.

Just my way of thinking.

Brian

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

That is exactly why checking nut height by measuring the action at the first fret is not recommended...because it will change with relief and saddle height. If you set the nut height the same as the frets, you won't have any problems. Anything higher than that is unnecessarily hard to play, and lower will mean open strings will buzz more than fretted strings.

Which is precisely why I outlined the procedure I use. Which in essense is similar to how you set yours. Except I use the strings as a straightedge. I aimed this at novices, and made that point in my OP. For me I like to have just a touch extra height, maybe a paper's thickness, because that's what I prefer, but I'll put it pretty much wherever a client feels it right to them.

[redir]

I like to add a bit extra height on the bass strings and to go as low as possible on the treble. It's probably splitting hairs on a well set up guitar but I like to do the saddle first.

[bnjp]

It depends on how you determine the nut height. If you do like I do, and measure off the first fret, you should do the Saddle first then the nut. Otherwise you'll cut the nut too low. I do the saddle with a capo at the 1st fret, then pull the capo, cut the nut slots, then go back and tweak the saddle if needed.

[murrmac123]

John Arnold has stated it definitively ... the correct nut slot height is the same as the height of the frets.

There could, I suppose, be some kind of rationale in making the slots slightly higher, for one of two reasons :
A: to allow for nut wear as a result of constant retuning, and
B: to eliminate back buzz (which will only ever occur on the bass strings) .

Other than those 2 reasons (which are both a bit whimsical IMO) , there is no logical reason to want the height of the nut slot to be any higher than the fret height. None at all.

The corollary is that the nut slot height can be set correctly with no regard whatsoever to the relief or the saddle height ... you do as John suggested and use a thin straightedge to get an accurate level between the first two fret tops and the nut slots.

If you wanted to be ultra hyper-persnickety about it, then you would make the relief zero while you filed the nut slots, but tbh, the difference in fret top/nut slot levels done with .005" relief and zero relief could only be measured in angstroms.

[redir]

I've had more then one customer desire higher nut slot heights because they like to pound on open chords and or play alternate tuning. When I build with a zero fret I even beef up ever so slightly the zero fret. There is almost never a definitive or 'only' way to do one thing when it comes to guitars, set up, construction and so on. There are philosophies and schools of thought and differing approaches to achieve the same thing, a well set up guitar.

I would think that if we all were doing it wrong we would not be in business any more.

I have my reasons for setting the saddle height first. I've not really heard of one for doing the nut first but again it's splitting hairs.

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

John Arnold has stated it definitively ... the correct nut slot height is the same as the height of the frets.

There could, I suppose, be some kind of rationale in making the slots slightly higher, for one of two reasons :
A: to allow for nut wear as a result of constant retuning, and
B: to eliminate back buzz (which will only ever occur on the bass strings) .

Other than those 2 reasons (which are both a bit whimsical IMO) , there is no logical reason to want the height of the nut slot to be any higher than the fret height. None at all.

The corollary is that the nut slot height can be set correctly with no regard whatsoever to the relief or the saddle height ... you do as John suggested and use a thin straightedge to get an accurate level between the first two fret tops and the nut slots.

If you wanted to be ultra hyper-persnickety about it, then you would make the relief zero while you filed the nut slots, but tbh, the difference in fret top/nut slot levels done with .005" relief and zero relief could only be measured in angstroms.

Thing is, not everyone has a thin straight edge... except the ones that are already installed on the guitar! So if you capo up a few frets, you should be able to see how much more you need to go down on the slots without ever touching the relief or saddle. It prevents "stupid" from happening, an extra 5 seconds of visual inspection before moving on up the neck. You can pull each string out the nut individually, make a couple strokes, put the string back on, clamp the capo and check.

I can think of other reasons. Like a certain individual with a cheaper guitar and some not too serious neck issues but cannot afford a fret dress and just needs a more playable guitar, my case where my butchery playing style prefers more string "feel" under my fat fingers (I use part of the flesh to mute adjacent strings my right hand cannot), cheap plastic nut... I've added a little height on a couple Strats, where the customer wanted to not use the string retainer on the E and B (a la Eric Johnson) just to "cheat" a little more break angle, playing slide with fretted notes... Granted these are more selective circumstances but they do exist.

[CooloutAC]

Originally Posted by redir

I like to add a bit extra height on the bass strings and to go as low as possible on the treble. It's probably splitting hairs on a well set up guitar but I like to do the saddle first.

finally. i thought i was in the twilight zone reading this thread. a guy who knows what he is talking about. That is exactly how my guitar is setup at the nut.

I myself use to believe everyone online saying adjust the truss rod first or 2nd. I guess that stewmac video is to blame. But I would adjust it last, and only if it is out of spec. I tightened mine a quarter turn recently and it twisted the neck. Wish I never touched it and only adjusted the saddle and nut.

The problem with adjusting the nut is there is alot more that can go wrong compared to the saddle and truss rod and most people don't even have the proper tools or willing to even invest to try. including me. My next guitar might be a throaway yamaha like everyone else. lol

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by redir

I've had more then one customer desire higher nut slot heights because they like to pound on open chords and or play alternate tuning. When I build with a zero fret I even beef up ever so slightly the zero fret. There is almost never a definitive or 'only' way to do one thing when it comes to guitars, set up, construction and so on. There are philosophies and schools of thought and differing approaches to achieve the same thing, a well set up guitar.

I would think that if we all were doing it wrong we would not be in business any more.

I have my reasons for setting the saddle height first. I've not really heard of one for doing the nut first but again it's splitting hairs.

I think that quite a few folks isolate the nut when setting the slot heights. So the measurement (tap test) is taken over the first fret but with each string back-fretted against the 2nd fret. In this scenario it really doesn't matter what height the saddle is - or what relief is set. Once you get your eye in for cutting nut slot heights this way you never go too low as you are always just a hair over the first fret height. It is not "perfect" but it is safe!

Relief is the one that gets me....There are a number of different methods used to measure it. So what is a "low" relief number for one luthier may be "high" for another. Both guitars can have exactly the same amount of relief but it has been measured in different places. I can say that my D-18 has both the Collins recommended relief of 0.005" and the Frets.com recommended relief of 0.010", when measured on the strings and locations each suggest!!!