Are they really worth the money?

[Eric_M]

Originally Posted by sloar

I’m an avid cyclist and once thought that $5,000 road bike was better than the much less expensive bikes. Once I got older and more experienced I come to realize that if I could ride blindfolded I probably wouldn’t be able to tell the difference. And figured out I was paying for a name.

What are the differences between high-end bikes and less expensive models? Lighter weight yet greater strength? More expensive raw materials? Top-shelf components? Possibly the promise of being easier to maneuver, faster, etc.? Innovations/features simply not found on lower-end bikes? Made in smaller quantities?

Probably similar differences between guitars. And like with bikes, everyone's got their idea of when diminishing returns kick in.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by sloar

I hope I don’t offend anyone here, but are high dollar guitars really worth thousands of dollars that’s on the price tags? Now I know the difference in Craftsmanship that goes into the more expensive guitars, but is that it? I was at the local music store playing some $3,000 + guitars and maybe I was expecting magic to come off the strings but I really wasn’t impressed. To my ears I didn’t hear anything more than what comes out of my 110. Maybe the fact that I’m a novice player, but I left there a little disappointed and made me appreciate my Taylor a lot more. So please enlighten and educate me on this. Thanks

hi, this is a perfectly reasonable question and I'll try to make my observation honestly.

Back in the '70s I yearned to get a "Martin" because that was what I saw on the covers of the albums (LP) of my musical heroes - mostly blues and bluegrass stuff.
I'd worked up from strange cheap stuff to a Harmony, to a Gibson, Epiphone to a Guild and then in 1975, I git "the" Martin - a '73 D35 that was all I needed for twenty years (and it still is a very fine D35 - a friend has it now).

I found that as my style developed I needed a wider fretboard, and searched to the Martin D35-S a 12 fret, but couldn't find one anywhere.

Eventually a single guitar salesman in a London dealer understood what I needed and got a small selection of extensive guitars that would meet my needs. One was a Martin an HD28VS, and there was a Bourgeois and Santa Cruz and ... a new name to me ... a Collings.
I believe that it was only the second one to come into the UK at that time.

It looked very much like the Martin but was just a little better in every way.
After some tough times, I'd been working in a new job for three years and things were going well and I felt secure enough to splash some cash for an instrument that would end my three year search.
I bought it and never regretted it.

How was it better than a Martin ? Lots of little ways. firstly the finish and presentation wasn't good, it was, literally, perfect.
The tone was quite remarkable - didn't sound like a Martin , but in some ways, better.

The thing that clinched the deal was that the eck and fretboard suited, or fitted my hand perfectly.
That guitar had a lot of miles when I sadly parted with it earlier this year, but I have three more now which suited me a little more, although I still miss it.
In a consignment sale I got back what I paid for it (in inflation reduced UK pounds).

Do my audience really appreciate the perfection of my Collings guitars ? Do they realise that the replacement cost (if I could even get one) would be around £5000? No, of course not.

American made guitars are getting to be too expensive in the UK now, and I believe that their popularity is on the wane, not because of quality, but because I believe the market is reducing.

The hihh quality acoustic guitar started to rise in popularity in (arguably) the '70s when Baby Boomers like me started earning good salaries and first experienced "disposable income."

I might be wrong but job security is no longer what it was in the later part of the 20th century, and house prices and the exchange rates are no longer in our favour.
Maybe I'm wrong and the next generation will have the interest and funds to buy great, guitars, rather than the mass produced instruments produced by Gibson and Martin - not to say that they are "bad" but far eastern products are really improving and the labour costs are far more competitive.

The sadly missed "Mandolin Brothers of New York used to call themselves the "Dream Fulfillment Centre" and to an extent this is what fine guitars are all about.

Folks like me who saw our heroes playing guitars that were simply beyond our possibility of owning them so as soon as they DID come into our reach - we bought 'em.

They ARE made better, with better tonewoods and other developments but, really, they are our "dreams" made real.

[srick]

As many have alluded, there is a difference, but you also have to have the skills to make the instrument work. An expensive guitar will rarely make your playing 'sound better' (although you may get more enjoyment from it).

The expensive guitars are more responsive and usually have a more complex tonal palette. And, their set-up is usually spot-on. But only lessons and practice will make you sound better.

To answer your question, "are they worth it?" my answer is absolutely. I love my Bourgeois guitar and want to play it as much as I can. I can't say that about other less expensive guitars I've had. So it is worth it for the enjoyment that it gives me and the incentive to play - it's hard to put a number on that.

[merlin666]

As others have mentioned it depends. With many of the mass produced guitars higher price mainly means more bling and aesthetic upgrades, but in terms of factors that affect the actual music the added value is small and may not be noticeable. But with smaller (boutique, custom shop, individual) builders there is likely more hand selection and matching of woods as well as fine tuning the instrument to optimize musical performance. As a result very high-end guitars are super responsive which is needed for nuanced and high level playing. For players without a high skill level this can be frustrating as it will magnify errors and sloppiness, which then hopefully leads to better playing.

[Stratcat77]

The law of diminishing returns applies at some point for sure, but "worth it" is SO subjective.

For me, it's a matter of my own wants and needs. I have no doubt there are better guitars than my Taylors, but by how much and based on what? No right or wrong answer.

My primary use of my guitars is public performance and I can say with confidence that I believe 99% of the people that come hear me play could never tell the difference if I played a $10,000 custom guitar. So for my own wants and needs, my Taylors serve me well.

[M Sarad]

Resale tells what the guitar is actually worth.

[jimki567]

Originally Posted by sloar

I hope I don’t offend anyone here, but are high dollar guitars really worth thousands of dollars that’s on the price tags? Now I know the difference in Craftsmanship that goes into the more expensive guitars, but is that it? I was at the local music store playing some $3,000 + guitars and maybe I was expecting magic to come off the strings but I really wasn’t impressed. To my ears I didn’t hear anything more than what comes out of my 110. Maybe the fact that I’m a novice player, but I left there a little disappointed and made me appreciate my Taylor a lot more. So please enlighten and educate me on this. Thanks

I have an opposing opinion....I was in a music store a couple of weeks ago. I headed for the "room" where the more expensive guitars hang. Gibson`s,Taylor`s, Martin`s, a couple of more expensive Yamaha`s and Takamine`s reside there as well. The $400 dollar guitars left me wanting more sustain and depth/complexity of tone, among other things. Even the $800-$1000 sustainable wood composite guitars were lacking compared to the 800 series Taylor`s and the D and HD series Martin`s. With that said there are exceptional examples in any price point. You can find a good sounding guitar for $500, but I bet you won`t find it in a store, yet tone is a personal thing right? I really liked one of the new composite Martin`s for the money, it would be a great travelling companion, but it`s not comparable to my 76 HD-28, or any of my other solid wood beauties...then there`s resale value....? The most expensive guitars were also the loudest guitars....just my 2 cents worth, everyone`s looking for something different. I gave an F-100 to my niece to learn on after i refretted the neck and gave it a "distressed look". It played as well as my solid wood guitars after I worked on it, but it will never have the tone...yet still a very enjoyable guitar.

[Ed66]

Originally Posted by Eric_M

What are the differences between high-end bikes and less expensive models? Lighter weight yet greater strength? More expensive raw materials? Top-shelf components? Possibly the promise of being easier to maneuver, faster, etc.? Innovations/features simply not found on lower-end bikes? Made in smaller quantities?

Probably similar differences between guitars. And like with bikes, everyone's got their idea of when diminishing returns kick in.

I can identify with this comparison. Years ago I went up the "spectrum" with mountain bikes chasing performance and quality. After about 5 years I came to the realization that it was the engine (me) not the bike that was the limiting factor. It took me slightly less time with guitars, however, everyone's upper limit is subjective. If you enjoy it and its not causing any pain (financial or other) have at it

[s2y]

Originally Posted by sloar

I hope I didn’t open an ageless debate, but just like every other new guitarist I’ve dreamed of owning a high end guitar. But I’ve went down that road with bicycles. I’m an avid cyclist and once thought that $5,000 road bike was better than the much less expensive bikes. Once I got older and more experienced I come to realize that if I could ride blindfolded I probably wouldn’t be able to tell the difference. And figured out I was paying for a name.

I'm a 120lb racer. Put me on my ~13-14lb road bike (depending on rims) and I can tell the difference.

As for name brand, I know plenty of people riding no-name Chinese carbon frames. What is the reliability? You don't want to find out on a 40mph+ descent that the frame or wheels are unsafe.

[RP]

Originally Posted by M Sarad

Resale tells what the guitar is actually worth.

Not really. It only tells what someone "else" is willing to pay for that guitar. Worth is inherently subjective...

[terrypl]

Good question, and one I have pondered myself. Over the years I have owned guitars in all price ranges from $125 up to almost $5,000. The most expensive ones were priced that high based more on aesthetics (beautiful woods, inlays, other decorative elements) than on tone. As with all subjective topics, your conclusions might be different, but these are my general conclusions:

* A $2,000 guitar sounds and plays noticeably better than a guitar that costs $1,000 or less.

* A sub-$1,000 guitar can still sound great and be easy to play.

* Any guitar sounds and plays better if set up for proper action.

* The difference in tone and playability once you get above the $2,500 price range is negligible — what others have called "diminishing returns."

* The value of aesthetic elements that increase the cost of a guitar is subjective. If loving the visual appeal of a guitar makes you play it more, then that's worth something. Or if the visual appeal simply enriches your enjoyment of a guitar, and you can afford it, then, hey, nothing wrong with that. But if you are asking if a $5,000 guitar plays and sounds twice as good as a $2,500 guitar, the answer is no.

* Finally, for me, I realized that my $2,000 guitars (Martin and Taylor) more than satisfy my desires (and match my skills), so I sold all my more expensive ones. And I still love and play my 1975 Guild D-35 that I bought used for $600, so price isn't always the benchmark for satisfaction.

[Mbroady]

In time one develops an appreciation and a discerning ear, an ear that has the capabilities of hearing the subtleties you get in a more expensive instrument. The Taylor 100 series are nice guitars. But for someone who's been playing 10, 15, 20 or 30 years a higher end instrument might make sense for them.

Also, I've sampled many higher-end instruments that sounded bad because , either they had dead strings or needed a a good set-up.

[CoffeeFan]

I've got an Alvarez-Yairi that I paid $400 for, and it's the second finest sounding guitar I've ever played. I can certainly afford a high-end guitar, but the reality is that I would be buying it more for the "look at it" aspect than the "listen to it" aspect.

[bufflehead]

Originally Posted by 1Charlie

Coming up on my 37th wedding anniversary, I can assure you that "we all" do not get tired of our spouses.

Bravo, Charlie. And congratulations.

I celebrated my 42nd anniversary a couple weeks ago, and am more in love now than ever in the past. If there's one thing I'm grateful for in this life, it's that the love of my life has not grown tired of me. (A clear bonus is that she has not yet grown tired of my guitar playing.)

[Tnfiddler]

Originally Posted by rmp

he beat me to it.....

Originally Posted by jimki567

I have an opposing opinion....I was in a music store a couple of weeks ago. I headed for the "room" where the more expensive guitars hang. Gibson`s,Taylor`s, Martin`s, a couple of more expensive Yamaha`s and Takamine`s reside there as well. The $400 dollar guitars left me wanting more sustain and depth/complexity of tone, among other things. Even the $800-$1000 sustainable wood composite guitars were lacking compared to the 800 series Taylor`s and the D and HD series Martin`s. With that said there are exceptional examples in any price point. You can find a good sounding guitar for $500, but I bet you won`t find it in a store, yet tone is a personal thing right? I really liked one of the new composite Martin`s for the money, it would be a great travelling companion, but it`s not comparable to my 76 HD-28, or any of my other solid wood beauties...then there`s resale value....? The most expensive guitars were also the loudest guitars....just my 2 cents worth, everyone`s looking for something different. I gave an F-100 to my niece to learn on after i refretted the neck and gave it a "distressed look". It played as well as my solid wood guitars after I worked on it, but it will never have the tone...yet still a very enjoyable guitar.

I’m glad someone else went there. Call me a snob or whatever, but I’ve not played any sub-$800 guitars that did it for me. My GS mini sounds good and is fun to play but does it have anywhere near the tone of my Bourgeois or Martin? No! Not even close. I bought a 210ce DLX koa and it sounded good, but it didn’t sound anywhere close to my 810 or Fall Ltd. Koa GS. I’ve got a good friend who has an old Yamaha that sounds good and is loud but it doesn’t do anything for me, tone-wise. I’m super picky about the tone I like and I haven’t found it in more affordable guitars.