C tunings on 24.9

Phoenix75 · #1 09-03-2019, 03:59 AM

Good morning my good folks!

I know this has been discussed a lot but I can't get a definite answer. Do u think. 24.9 scale could handle a type of c or c# tuning? I use 52 11 on a 25.4 so by moving to 13 53 I'm hoping to compensate even if this is necessary? The guitar would be the RK t 16. Some people say they do others say they get a rattle.

sevenpalms · #2 09-03-2019, 05:30 AM

I find Bluegrass gauge, the 56-12 works really well for open C and other C tunings. They are heavy on the bottom and light on the top. That may work for you a little better.

Steve DeRosa · #3 09-03-2019, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix75

... Some people say they do, others say they get a rattle.

I'd go to a 14-60 set for tone - and a good pro setup to insure playability...

Howard Emerson · #4 09-03-2019, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix75

Good morning my good folks!

I know this has been discussed a lot but I can't get a definite answer. Do u think. 24.9 scale could handle a type of c or c# tuning? I use 52 11 on a 25.4 so by moving to 13 53 I'm hoping to compensate even if this is necessary? The guitar would be the RK t 16. Some people say they do others say they get a rattle.

Talk is cheap. Here's my Flammang L-40 standard scale 24.9" in open C (1-5-1-5-1-3) with D'Addario EJ-16's with .017 & .013 plains.

https://soundcloud.com/user-676357162/rumble-strut

Enjoy!

Howard Emerson

erhino41 · #5 09-03-2019, 07:43 AM

They will have enough tension to give you volume and solid tone. It depends on the setup wether you'll buzz or not. Maybe a new saddle for the lowered tuning?

jaymarsch · #6 09-03-2019, 08:04 AM

I have used 12 - 54s on my guitars in dropped C tunings and have not had a problem. But with your guitar and playing style, it may vary. Howard has posted a great example of what one of his short scale guitars sounds like in dropped C with his string choice. Nice playing, Howard! Thanks for posting that.

Here is a short demo video of an Alvarez AP66sb - 24.2" scale length. I know from having an email chat with the guy who did the demo that he is playing in a dropped B tuning with D'Addario EXP 12-54s. You can hear some buzzing at certain points. At about the 1:35 in the video, you can hear him play the guitar. At some point with each guitar, I would imagine you would have choices to make with either string gauge or set up.

Best,
Jayne

mcduffnw · #7 09-03-2019, 09:03 AM

You not getting a definite answer because there IS NO definite answer.

It really depends on the individual guitar, and really, the individual top and bracing on that top...and really...on that whole "soundbox"...the size and shape and geometry of the top, top bracing, sides, back and back bracing and how that all works together as a cohesive unit.

Some guitars, some tops, at 24.9 can handle it just great, some simply cannot. The only way to know with any given guitar is put it into that tuning and see what you get, and experiment a bit with different string gauges/tensions. You may also have to adjust your playing technique as well...you attack and angle and force used to play at a lowered tuning, depending on what string gauge you use, and how you guitar responds.

Ya just gotta try it and see what happens...

duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

Phoenix75 · #8 09-03-2019, 09:37 AM

Thank you. Yes I want to stay with a light gauge as best as possible. Thanks for the video and tips. My dirty 3os handles 11 52 no problem and I like the sound in this c tuning so I'm thinking I could ask them to try a gauge for me. I'm buying it online possibly so can't get to try it. I'm thinking recording king do gear their guitars for compatibility for drop type tunings. The ro t16.

FrankHudson · #9 09-03-2019, 10:13 AM

I don't play in C tuning as such, but one of my favorite altered tunings is CGDGBE and I will play it on sub-25" scale guitars with regular .012 string acoustic light string sets.

It's probably not ideal, and if I had world enough and time and infinite guitars and funds I'd go with one of those "bluegrass" string sets for that tuning. For a dedicated fully lowered tuning guitar in the C range I'd definitely consider a medium set.

I don't generally have low-action, and buzzing isn't my big issue (As a bass player, a little fret/fingerboard noise can even be a flavor). But below a certain tension the strings don't vibrate as well or "truly." The harder you hit, the longer you want the note to sustain, the overtone nature of your guitar, how you mute, all impact how much of an issue this is. A piano with the loud pedal down kind of sound doesn't work as well, a longer sustain but wobbly (even buzzy) like a tambura drone can work, a shorter upright bass like thump too.

As Howard demonstrates, the player makes a difference on how well this works too.

ljguitar · #10 09-03-2019, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix75

Good morning my good folks!

I know this has been discussed a lot but I can't get a definite answer. Do u think. 24.9 scale could handle a type of c or c# tuning? I use 52 11 on a 25.4 so by moving to 13 53 I'm hoping to compensate even if this is necessary? The guitar would be the RK t 16. Some people say they do others say they get a rattle.

Hi P75

I'm assuming you are starting with the guitar properly setup and the action where you like it. Short scale guitars can have their string weights ramped up by one gauge and feel like one weight less on normal scale (25.4").

Short Scale guitars exhibit less tension with heavier gauge strings than normal scale or long scale guitars.

Similarly, if you downtune a full scale ½ step, you can raise the weight of the strings by a full weight (based on the treble string weight).

If it's going to be long term change, then a setup done with the new gauge strings and in that altered/adjusted tuning will give best long term results.

There are companies which package a Light/Medium gauge (.012 -.056) or Med/heavy (.013 -.058/.059ish) which work well for low tunings on a short scale guitar.

Building your own custom sets is expensive.

Larry Pattis · #11 09-03-2019, 11:05 AM

My comment is that only *you* will be able to discover how your guitar responds to the tuning, and with a possible variety of string gauges.

You won't hurt your guitar at all be trying slightly heavier tension/larger diameter strings while tuning down.

All else is moot.

Phoenix75 · #12 09-19-2019, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi P75

I'm assuming you are starting with the guitar properly setup and the action where you like it. Short scale guitars can have their string weights ramped up by one gauge and feel like one weight less on normal scale (25.4").

Short Scale guitars exhibit less tension with heavier gauge strings than normal scale or long scale guitars.

Similarly, if you downtune a full scale ½ step, you can raise the weight of the strings by a full weight (based on the treble string weight).

If it's going to be long term change, then a setup done with the new gauge strings and in that altered/adjusted tuning will give best long term results.

There are companies which package a Light/Medium gauge (.012 -.056) or Med/heavy (.013 -.058/.059ish) which work well for low tunings on a short scale guitar.

Building your own custom sets is expensive.

Thanks. Yes I'm just about getting away with nickel 53 12s i think I would need to go up +1 on the 24.9. IL c. As said there also u only know when you have the instrument which gauges work. But with the waiting space in between finally getting the guitar your mind wants to know.