#31
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
The only revealing data that would be accomplished is you might possibly get data on a consensus of "opinion", which is still totally subjective. And thus you would have a compilation of data on "subjective personal opinion" in other words arguably you have a net Zero gain from just "trusting our own subjective opinion" Unfortunately for example the posted quote "scientific" studies linked, have two major flaws in methodology the big one is the inescapable variable of "different performances",,,,, compounded by the variable of personal opinion based on the variable of different performances. Put differently : IMO the beauty and art of music and tonal quality is in how it "feels" to the individual and while it may be qualifiable I do not think it is quantifiable
__________________
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Sonoma 14.4 Last edited by KevWind; 08-29-2019 at 07:33 AM. |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
duff Be A Player...Not A Polisher |
#33
|
|||
|
|||
The number of variables is large which would make a scientic comparison difficult. But given enough data it should be possible using laymen recording their guitars under somewhat controlled form and a machine learning analysis. Would be really cool to see whether different woods can be distinguished.
Maybe the big guitar makers would like to sponsor it. Or not. |
#34
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Agreed.... |
#35
|
|||
|
|||
I know even my wife can tell the difference in my D-15 hog vs my 414 ovangkol, from the dining room to the kitchen. But those are different makers, models, and different woods. Tonight I will test her on the 414 vs a similar rw spruce from Indonesia which is a little thicker and poorer built.
|
#36
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
At least to my satisfaction, enough studies have been done right here on this forum. Regardless of the price of any two guitars, there are players who praise brands/models that I've played and know that I'm not particularly fond of them. Likewise, others aren't fond of guitars that I might think are fantastic. Often we're talking about a brand's signature tone, so it's not simply a question of differences in individual guitars. I suppose a study describing the properties of various guitars might be useful, but trying to get objective data on something like "best bang for the buck" is tougher. |
#37
|
|||
|
|||
I think a study to determine the best beer for a given price would be far less problematic, and actually useful -
__________________
More than a few Santa Cruz’s, a few Sexauers, a Patterson, a Larrivee, a Cumpiano, and a Klepper!! |
#38
|
|||
|
|||
If you really are interested in the "differences" woods can make, this paper is the one to read -
http://www.psych.lancs.ac.uk/hearing...ar-experiment/ Lancaster University, Roger Bucknall (Fylde guitars) - "Six handmade Fylde Guitars guitars built on commission from our lab. All the six guitars were based on the same model (Falstaff model), and were built to the same dimensional and material specifications, except for the back and side plates. The woods used for the back and side plates of the six guitars were: Brazilian Rosewood, Honduras Mahogany, Indian Rosewood, Maple, Sapele, and Claro Walnut. These six woods cover a wide range of prestige among players, availability, and price." Read it if you dare.... Keith |
#39
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
There are a truckload (Ford or GM) of assumptions in your perfectly reasonable question, but remember that guitars are built by businesses and sold to businesses to sell 'em to us. Businesses wouldn't want to subject their products to another to be foud wanting. That is what happens on the open market by us, the end users who make a choice - some informed some less so. I read this forum every morning over breakfast, and again in the eveings when my wife is watching something I really don't want to watch. I see endless threads about buying different products but they ar mostly the standard issue stuff - Martin dreads and OMS, Gibson Jumbos and Taylors (that I don't know about) and Eastmans mostly. There are some threads about more esoteric or individual instruments but largely, like in most sectors the end user buys what he is told to buy. What is "great" for you will be "feh" for me. What is cheap for you may be way too much for me. Etc. Some will pay for endangered tonewoods and some won't (I won't) Some pay for brand names and some don't. and, your method doesn't take into account that fact that a new guitar is the worst it will ever sound as they open up and that it down to the player/environment, and that from many of the common makers you wil find one which works well and the next which doesn't. Too many variables, to calculate any absolute judgements , plus of course as someone once said "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".
__________________
Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom! |
#40
|
|||
|
|||
From the university of Lancashire / Fylde study:
"Conclusions Overall our results indicate the species of wood used for the back and sides of a steel-string acoustic guitar has at best a marginal impact on its acoustic properties and perceived sound, and that cheaper and sustainable woods can be used as substitutes of expensive and endangered woods without loss of sound quality. This page presented only a quick summary of the main results of the study. The paper presents the results of additional tests and more in depth discussions of the results shown here. The Leonardo Guitar Research Project, a project that is completely independent of our own study, has so far reached similar conclusions." Of course, I can already guess that a lot of people won't want to accept this and will go on paying a ridiculous upcharge for the latest exotic wood combination, only to sell the guitar at a huge loss sometime in the future. |
#41
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
In the end it is about who you love above yourself and what you have stood for and lived for that make the difference... |
#42
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Might be an improvement over the sub-thousand laminate body <redacted> that look dreadful and sound worse, "But they're <redacted>..." And a Squire Bullet is a Fender, right? |
#43
|
|||
|
|||
Its best we don't waste our time with such nonsense
all I know is what I have makes me happy and I enjoy playing them -and to me they sound great - Its not that I don't care , but some folks really get carried away with this GAS thing -which (IMO) may of been started by a guitar company just to sell more guitars we don't need -at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it ! Peace !
__________________
--------------------------------- Wood things with Strings ! |
#44
|
|||
|
|||
Never going to be anything definitive. This one is very cool and with recordings, let's you be the judge. I know your computer speakers are the size of penny, but still, close your eyes the second time through and see what you think.
http://www.leonardo-guitar-research.com Ed |
#45
|
|||
|
|||
Interesting idea for folks who enjoy (or even require) detailed research for purchasing decisions, but as a practical matter is of limited value to most. IMHO, it could also create a degree of "paralysis by analysis" which makes the buying decision even further. Personally, I tend to gather a fair amount of information, seek informed opinions & perspectives, play as many guitars as I can, and all while shopping around for something in my price range (usually end up spending a bit more than I planned on). All this being said, I would be very interested in seeing the results of the type of study identified by the OP. Nothing, however, beats playing guitars and judging for yourself. One thing I've noticed in myself is that the price tag on a guitar greatly influencing my expectations of that guitar -- which skews any attempt to do an apples-to-apples comparison with lower or higher priced guitars. In any event, Great thread -- Thanks to the OP for getting it started!
|