EZdrummer

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

I may program a basic beat from scratch with the piano roll editor, or sometimes just grab a simple MIDI pattern from the drum plugin, drag it into Reaper and tweak from there.

To those of us who don't have any drumming intuition, what you describe doing would be like trying to read a book in a language I don't speak. I may recognize and be able to decipher some words or phrases, but I'm never going to grasp the whole book.

Continuing with that analogy, programs like EZDrummer, Superior Drummer and others act as a sort of translator allowing me to express what I want to express in a language I do not speak.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by jim1960

...Another thing worth mentioning is that you don't have to use the midi editor in EZDrummer. I've found it easier to just drag the midi from the Groove Library right onto an instrument track in my daw (Pro Tools in my case) and edit there. I find it's must easier to line things up that way, plus I can copy and paste grooves in my daw as needed. ...

This is also how I use Easy Drummer, as Jim describes above, except I use Cubase for my DAW. I would expect any DAW to allow you to drag and drop the EZ Drummer midi files right into a drum track on your DAW and edit from there.

- Glenn

[MikeBmusic]

I used EZ Drummer, then moved to EZD2 when it came out. I haven't bought any of the MIDI packs, which are merely more drum grooves to insert into your existing EZD. You have literally hundreds to use with the standard package, more if you buy any of the expansion packs.
And with EZD2, there are longer (several bars) grooves, which you can then drag into the easy edit feature, then adjust the number of hits (per drum) to your liking, then drag that into your project.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by wooster

... Thank you for your detailed response, Glenn and I am indebted to you for giving me some insight into your methods. I really don't want to try anything too complex at least initially and will stick to simpler rhythms with some fills thrown in much as you mentioned. I'm a bit beleaguered with software learning curves so I will leave BIAB for the time being and concentrate on learning to get better with Logic and EZdrummer. ...

Hi Wooster,

I understand and your thinking makes sense.

Once you get a handle (or at least some sort of handle) on EZ Drummer, you might think about Band In A Box again. You can do a free 30-day trial to see if you find the program worthwhile.

I am not the world's greatest programmer, though to some people I come across as computer savvy. The truth is, I learn what I need to know as I need it. But it all takes effort and time. With that in mind, I found BIAB not that hard to learn to use. Their tutorials (PG Music) from the website or on YouTube are quite comprehensive.

The hardest part about BIAB for me has been getting all the chords laid out correctly on the proper measures on their grid. If you are going to be writing music, using BIAB to lay all this stuff out, measure by measure, will actually be very helpful to you. And you usually need to do this for laying out a drum track, too. So for me, spending an hour or two to understand the programming method, which is not terribly hard, was worth the effort so that I could have everything in my song laid out and organized. And then once that is done, I get to hear the song without having done all the recording work. Plus, you can change styles and see what different approaches do to your song.

BIAB is not a great recording tool yet, though it probably will be not too far off in the future, but it's really great for songwriters and for people who need someone to play music with.

So... just something to think about for the future.

- Glenn

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by jim1960

...

Hi Jim,

I finally had time to listen to your recording and it sounds great!

The drum track sounds excellent, and that's been my experience with EZ Drummer, too. Their samples are really well done.

But also the entire recording and mix sounds good. Excellent job! I don't think I have ever heard one of your recordings before!

What fun!

- Glenn

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Hi Jim,

I finally had time to listen to your recording and it sounds great!

The drum track sounds excellent, and that's been my experience with EZ Drummer, too. Their samples are really well done.

But also the entire recording and mix sounds good. Excellent job! I don't think I have ever heard one of your recordings before!

What fun!

- Glenn

Thanks Glenn, I appreciate the kind words. That was a project that just sorta fell into my lap. A friend of mine was scoring a horror short for someone. We were talking one night and he happened to mention he had to come up with an arrangement for a country song for the movie. The writer handed him the lyrics but she had no melody.

I offered to take a look at the lyrics to see if anything came to mind. He sent them over via email and the melody came to me pretty much instantly. I sang back to him what I was hearing in my head. It wasn't country but I thought it fit the song. We talked about how it should be arranged. In my head it felt like a Mark Knopfler kind of tune, so that's the direction we went in.

The song didn't have a bridge so those are the only words I wrote for it but all the melody was mine.

We split the load on production. I did the drums, we called in a pro for the sax, and my friend did all the other instrumentation. Once all the tracks were recorded (multiple takes for everything), he passed it over to me and I did all the comp work. The almost last thing was the vocal track. He came over to my place and we did the vox here with my Flea 47 ...four takes, he comped it at his place and sent me a mix. I thought something was lacking so I roughly added some Omnisphere oohs and aahs as backing vocals. He agreed they should be in the song. He added those parts and we were both happy with the outcome ...happy enough that for poops and giggles we decided to send it off to Abbey Road to get mastered by Geoff Pesche (who happened to cut the vinyl for Dire Straits' Brothers in Arms album).

[Shepsdad]

Another idea, do you happen to have an Ipad or even an IPhone? I’ve found the virtual drummer in garage band to be way easier to use than any of the other apps. I played around with it for maybe an hour before I recorded a drum track with it. Lots of different kits/sounds and you can throw in fills on the fly. The more you use it, the more ideas come up as you go.

My son in law, who is a drummer, was listening to some of my songs and commented on how good my drumming was (I do have a drum kit), lol. He was surprised when I showed him the garage band app on HIS phone.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by jim1960

To those of us who don't have any drumming intuition, what you describe doing would be like trying to read a book in a language I don't speak. I may recognize and be able to decipher some words or phrases, but I'm never going to grasp the whole book.

Continuing with that analogy, programs like EZDrummer, Superior Drummer and others act as a sort of translator allowing me to express what I want to express in a language I do not speak.

What he is describing has to with midi programing not drumming per.se. and applies to all VI's not just Drum VI's BUT as in all things DAW and Digital, it's really a matter learning the midi lingo .
And even though I did take a programming beats course at Berklee. I am only partially fluent

There are a number of ways to use midi in a DAW.
As far as drums there are "Drum VI's" such as EZ Drummer, Slate Drums, etc. There are "Pattern Sequencers" such as Boom in PT (most DAWs offer a drum sequencer of some kind or other)

And maybe you already know some or all this below : BUT

Am I correct in assuming what you do is drag in pre recorded midi drum Grooves/loops into a PT Instrument track ? And when you say "edit from there " are you actually editing the individual midi notes in the groove you just dragged in,,,,, or using different Groove/loops or variation of that groove for different song sections . ?

So here is the thing when someone says "programing beats". What they are describing is, rather than using pre recorded groove/loops they are entering the midi notes manually (via either by playing in notes from a midi keyboard , or a midi pad type controller...... OR simply entering notes usually with the pencil tool in the midi editor window in the DAW of on the GUI of VI itself

The Piano Roll is simply the vertical layout of notes in an overhead view of a Piano keyboard (usually on left side) with the corresponding horizontal note lanes shown in a Midi Edit window .

The real value in learning how to manually enter midi notes is it open up the entire VI instruments world for things you can add to your productions (that do not lend themselves to loops as readily as drums)

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Thanks Glenn, I appreciate the kind words. That was a project that just sorta fell into my lap. A friend of mine was scoring a horror short for someone. We were talking one night and he happened to mention he had to come up with an arrangement for a country song for the movie. The writer handed him the lyrics but she had no melody.

I offered to take a look at the lyrics to see if anything came to mind. He sent them over via email and the melody came to me pretty much instantly. I sang back to him what I was hearing in my head. It wasn't country but I thought it fit the song. We talked about how it should be arranged. In my head it felt like a Mark Knopfler kind of tune, so that's the direction we went in.

The song didn't have a bridge so those are the only words I wrote for it but all the melody was mine.

We split the load on production. I did the drums, we called in a pro for the sax, and my friend did all the other instrumentation. Once all the tracks were recorded (multiple takes for everything), he passed it over to me and I did all the comp work. The almost last thing was the vocal track. He came over to my place and we did the vox here with my Flea 47 ...four takes, he comped it at his place and sent me a mix. I thought something was lacking so I roughly added some Omnisphere oohs and aahs as backing vocals. He agreed they should be in the song. He added those parts and we were both happy with the outcome ...happy enough that for poops and giggles we decided to send it off to Abbey Road to get mastered by Geoff Pesche (who happened to cut the vinyl for Dire Straits' Brothers in Arms album).

Hi Jim,

I was wondering about the sax! It sounded so good and so realistic, I wondered if it was more than just a midi file and a sample of a sax. It sounded great!

I also wondered about the background vocals. I thought you had done them; interesting that they were samples.

Interesting, too, about having Abbey Road do the mastering! Cool!

- Glenn

[Brent Hahn]

There are tons of workable-to-great drum programs and sample packages out there. But they work best when they're solving the problem of "can't get decent drum sounds." They can't solve most people's real problem, which even at its simplest is "can't play/think/feel like a drummer."

Try spending some serious time really listening to real drumming. Simple drumming, not fancy stuff. And when it becomes possible again, play with real drummers, and go hear them live. You may find that it informs your musicianship to the point where your choice of drum software and samples hardly matters.

In the meantime, of course, keep on writing and recording and having fun. Because this stuff I'm talking about is work that only leads to greater gratification eventually; no need to let it prevent you from doing what you love in the present.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Hi Jim,

I was wondering about the sax! It sounded so good and so realistic, I wondered if it was more than just a midi file and a sample of a sax. It sounded great!

I also wondered about the background vocals. I thought you had done them; interesting that they were samples.

Interesting, too, about having Abbey Road do the mastering! Cool!

- Glenn

Omnisphere has some pretty realistic human sounds. Used judiciously and in the right places, they really can add a lot to a mix. The client was ecstatic about how the song turned out. She envisioned a country song and she had some reservations when my buddy told her the direction we were heading with it but the end result blew her away. The song was used in the scene it was intended for and then again at the end while the credits rolled.

The sax player is Adam Tese. He's toured with some well known artists. He's a friend of the guy I was working with on the song. Before then, I'd never heard him play and I was just amazed listening to him when we were tracking. Really nice guy. We ran through the song four times and just let him riff. That gave me plenty of material to create the sax track. The only part I asked for specifically was the opening sax line. I could hear those four notes in my head and he laid them down beautifully.

Here's Adam playing with Taylor Dayne...

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

Try spending some serious time really listening to real drumming.

I didn't realize how little I knew about drumming until those first attempts at creating drum tracks. And by "little," I mean nothing. I knew nothing about drumming. The songs I write rarely call for anything more than simple percussion so I never dove very deeply into it.