What is "hard strumming"?

kenliu · #1 11-14-2001, 03:08 AM

Hi folks -

I'm contemplating buying a 514c in the future, but I am sort of concerned about the cedar top not sounding good with hard strumming.

As I think about it, I sort of wonder what "hard strumming" really is, and whether I truly am a hard strummer. I think that maybe I'm just paranoid about overdriving the cedar top, and maybe I'm not as hard of a strummer compared to other people.

So what exactly constitutes "hard strumming?"

Ken

Guitar Dad · #2 11-14-2001, 09:36 AM

I've had the same question. Perhaps somebody could answer with a few song examples.

kidcheesyriffs · #3 11-14-2001, 10:22 AM

Pinball Wizard

Shea · #4 11-14-2001, 02:40 PM

I've been thinking hard about this question. I have a 514c (which I now have to sell)and I don't think I have really encountered a song yet that was effected in a negative way due to not being able to strum the guitar hard. I do know that if I try to strum real loud, then you can overdrive the top, but any 14 body style is never going to be as loud as a dread.

I have to disagree about the song Pinball Wizard. I play this all the time on mine and it sounds awesome. That song doesn't need to be played that hard to sound great. Infact, the tones I get out of playing this guitar higher up on the neck are just outstanding. I have found that if I make sure I am hitting those low E base notes when applicable in songs, it makes a big difference regarding the percepted "loudness" our aggressiveness that some people are looking for. I have found that "loud" sometimes is a bandaid for more bass sounds. I don't know if that makes any sense at all, I'm not a professional here by any means. This is just what I have discovered from playing my 514c. I have found that playing a smaller body like the 14, has made me a better player in terms of the overall definition of sound that you can make from your guitar. I hope this helps or makes some sense.

Shea

Noflatpick · #5 11-14-2001, 02:56 PM

I'm better at pinball than I am at guitar.

kidcheesyriffs · #6 11-14-2001, 03:08 PM

Shea - You don't have to play Pinball Wizard hard if you don't want to, but Pete Townshend does. Since kenliu is looking for an example of hard strumming, this is probably something that may be lying around. On the other hand, it may be hard to find a recording of Shea doing Pinball Wizard

[ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: kidcheesyriffs ]

kenliu · #7 11-14-2001, 04:33 PM

Actually Guitar Dad was looking for song examples.

Ok - got Pinball Wizard. That's of a good example, but I don't think he's strumming that hard, just fast.

Does the thickness of the pick have anything to do with it? I generally stick to thinner picks (Dunlop Tortex .5 or .6).

I would think that a heavier pick would exert a stronger force on the strings.

Ken

Shea · #8 11-14-2001, 04:48 PM

[It may be hard to find a recording of Shea doing Pinball Wizard]

Amen to that!!!

Shea

[ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: Shea ]

[ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: Shea ]

GordonHLau · #9 11-14-2001, 05:34 PM

Here's one way to determine if you are NOT a hard strummer. In one of Taylor's tech sheets they tell you that if you are a hard strummer, you would probably prefer a higher action than the Taylor standard to minimize string buzzing. If you don't get ANY buzzing when strumming with the factory set action (2/32"-1st, 3/32"-6th @ 12th fret), you are not a hard strummer.

BTW, I do some hard strumming on my 714ce and the string buzzing always masked the sound of the top being overdriven. It's like this on ANY GA Taylor I've played set at the factory action. I ended up raising my action 1/64" to minimize the buzzing when I lay into my hard strumming tunes (SRV's 'Testify', ELO's 'Fire on High', several Who tunes, etc.).

GL

[ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: GordonHLau ]

kenliu · #10 11-14-2001, 09:30 PM

I do normally get a little bit of buzzing, but that's only with one string (the G string?) and I attribute that to a problem with the nut or something like that.

I was playing my 810 today, trying to wail on it as hard as I could and I didn't get a whole lot of buzzing. I definitely get more with the heavier pick.

Ken

kidcheesyriffs · #11 11-15-2001, 09:33 AM

I once read that the guy from the '80's metal band "Thunder" had such a heavy attack that his hand would be bloody after every show.

Is that a good example?

Stevie Ray used to dig in pretty hard ... check out the version of "Pride and Joy" that he did unplugged.

Daniel · #12 11-22-2001, 03:05 AM

I have a hard strumming example

. I went to an Indigo Girls concert last year (Jackson Browne was on the bill -- a fine guitarist and who I wanted to see). Emilee and Aymee pound their guitars so mercilessly, they get handed a new guitar after every song. That's how long it takes them to beat them out of tune.

gmccall · #13 11-22-2001, 10:25 AM

Hi Ken,

Hope you and every one have a great Turkey Day.

Two things:
First for you:

1. My experience is such that I feel srumming your guitar out of tune while over-driving the top, is a good measure of strumming which is "NOT EASY" -- buzzing excluded. After you meet that criterion, any additional pounding you chance to administer, continues to move my measurment marker up the EASY >to> HARDEST continuium, toward the hardest end.

Also, if you find a recurring need to Duct Tape your pick to your fingers -- you are stumming rather hard...

Second for Shea:

2.

Quote:

... but any 14 body style is never going to be as loud as a dread.

Just FYI: I just gotta mention that I was very surprised to discover that my buddy's PS14C Englemann/KOA compete's with my 810B Englemann/Brazilian "IN EVERY WAY". It is just as loud as my dread when we play together every week. Those Taylor Presentations are dramatic instruments.

Later,
grm

[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: gmccall ]