000/OM Build thread. Ba-Zillion questions

[ClaptonWannabe2]

I want to start with radius dishes/work board. I have come to find out that most tool makers are intelligent people. They know what a novice builder is trying to do. Basically they know what you are trying to do. Replicate something that costs 1500-3000 dollars or more. Radius boards are basically 50-80-100 dollars. And side molds are 100 bucks.

Any of you guys have a cheat for a radius board? Shopping for a radius board yesterday was my stare at the sky and use a lot of swear words moment. Just "really" another 80 bucks. That's not including the go-deck.

I'm very close to starting. I'm very close to quitting.

[Bruce Sexauer]

I make my own dishes. I made my own go bar deck. Either of these projects pale compared to the challenge of building a decent guitar.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by ClaptonWannabe2

I'm very close to starting. I'm very close to quitting.

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times..."


The use of radiuses dishes is a fairly new development in guitar making. You don't need them, but they can be time-saving if you build using that method. You can make your own. You can also make something similar using a flat board. You can bend the flat board into a cylinder or into a portion of a sphere. You can also use concentric rings/strips of card stock to build-up any shape you want. Cost of your time vs. cost of buying ready-made.

As Bruce points out, the tool and jig making can be a small part of making a guitar. Do you want to make guitars or make tools and jigs? Those who prefer to make guitars, often just buy ready-made tools, jigs and fixtures.

A go bar deck is easy - and inexpensive - to make oneself, particularly if you have a ceiling against which to prop the go bars. For many years, I used the top of my workbench and the ceiling as the surfaces against which to have the go bars press. I reinforced the ceiling with a piece of plywood and alter the height of my "go deck" using one or more pieces of MDF on my workbench, particularly if they are contoured gluing forms.

[yellowesty]

It's been noted that building a guitar to save money on guitars is like building a boat to save money on fish. I find that to be true even if I ignore any "cost" associated with my time.

[Kieran]

To add to Charles post, all you need to know for a simple dish is this info https://www.liutaiomottola.com/formulae/sag.htm

Jigs are fun to make and this will be the first of many if you are making a guitar on a budget.

Good luck

[Alan Carruth]

If you can come up with a piece of wood that has one edge concave to the proper radius you won't need dishes. You can use that to check or even make the radius of the braces, and as a caul to clamp them to. You can also use it to check the edges of the sides as you profile them. I did this for a long time before I got any radius dishes.

A thin shim, say about 1/16" thick, stuck to the under side of a plane behind the cutter with CA glue converts it into a radius plane. The trick is to find the right spot for the radius you want: try about 4" back from the cutter. Mark it. I use this with a 'shooting board' to cut my brace surfaces. Plane outward from the middle of the braces. The first pass will 'snipe' off the ends. The second pass cuts further back. When you get a shaving the whole length of the brace that you can reach with the shim on the surface you're done. It really works.

I made my first dish form by routing out circles on a piece of MDF. you start with a small deep one in the middle, and work your way out with bigger and shallower ones. It's a bit of work to smooth everything off. Glue a piece of Masonite to the flat bottom of the dish to keep it from curling up as you remove material.

You can also use the plane trick to make radius rails for a router carriage. Mount the circular piece for the dish on a lazy susan, and run the router across it on the carriage. Turn the dish a little and repeat. This makes LOTS of dust. Do it outdoors if you can't rig a good collector.

As Charles says, a bench top and a piece of ply on the ceiling makes a great go-bar deck. I use 5/16" dowels. Note that they like to curve in a particular direction, and will spring around to their preferred orientation if you get it wrong. This initiates go-bar explosions.

You can substitute time and effort for money. None of this is rocket science. It's entirely possible to do fine work with really minimal tooling.

[JonWint]

Originally Posted by ClaptonWannabe2

Any of you guys have a cheat for a radius board?

The assembly instructions I recommended earlier tell how to build without radiused dishes.

https://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/i-5283/i-5283.pdf

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by ClaptonWannabe2

Any of you guys have a cheat for a radius board? Shopping for a radius board yesterday was my stare at the sky and use a lot of swear words moment. Just "really" another 80 bucks. That's not including the go-deck.

Making a radius board is not a huge job but can be tricky when starting out.

I like two pieces of mdf 3/4 inch glued together for thickness.

If you have a cnc, then simple as, run program radius dish cut.

If you have a lathe, then simply draw the desired radius on a 1/8 inch mdf sheet, sand it to shape and then lathe the thick mdf, referencing your template to work out where to cut.

Last, more complicated but works if you just have a router. Make two support rails shaped to the desired radius that you can glide your router on, set the two rails above your glued mdf, slide the router along the two guide rails with a ball nose, rotate bottom plate, go again, keep repeating until the whole dish is done

Steve

[printer2]

Originally Posted by JonWint

The assembly instructions I recommended earlier tell how to build without radiused dishes.

https://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/i-5283/i-5283.pdf

Page 12 shows the radius cut out of a 2"x4". You can only do one brace at a time, not a big deal. Cut two and you can do double the fun at one time except for the X brace.

[ClaptonWannabe2]

Thanks Fred. That is very helpful.

How is the (gonna try to make this clear) longitudinal radius achieved? The sides of any guitar taper up toward the neck. I know you and others who've replied know this. Just being simplistic to make clear what I am asking. How is that taper achieved? Are stew Mac sides cut for this taper as well as bent? I've seen many videos of luthiers with a true radius dish sanding the entire assembled side of the guitar. Laying the piece flat on its back and rotating the piece side to side. Is this how they achieve this taper?

[JonWint]

The clamping when gluing the back creates the taper to the neck end of the guitar.

You can sand a bevel on the sides/linings with the StewMac recommended sanding bevel caul. I also just use a bevel sanding block that rides along the sides with a greater-than-angle extension (92* or 93*) that sands the lining after roughing the bevel with a small finger plane.

[ClaptonWannabe2]

Originally Posted by JonWint

The clamping when gluing creates the taper to the neck end of the guitar.

What creates the taper to the sides themselves.

[JonWint]

See edit in #11 above.

You really need to read the Instruction Manual (or other guitar building books) several times until you understand every step. There is no short cut.

When reading through the instructions, decide what tools/bits/jigs/cauls you will need to do the work from start to finish. If then, you are not comfortable with the time and money investment, revaluate your desire to build a guitar.

[ClaptonWannabe2]

Reading the Cumpiano book.

[JonWint]

I read Cumpiano and 3 or 4 others also.

Your best chance and quickest way of completing a guitar is if you build from a kit. In that case, the StewMac instructions will be almost entirely what you need to get it done.