#31
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many takes
There are two ways I'm going with this since my dive into Celtic acoustic, which at this point I find very very challenging on the right hand consistency. Even if I am playing this song well as a whole, the little misses, drags or slips eat away at me obsessively (I know that friends who are great guitarists are going to hear it someday upon recording and posting the song).
So in Reaper, if i'm using a metronome for songs that don't waver in tempo, I will record the song from beginning to end many times on separate tracks, maybe even 10 or 12 times. The chances of finding a section that meets my criteria are pretty good at that point and can be edited together with some efficiency from the bar snap feature. If I'm not using a metronome, which is most of the time, I will just continually play the song from beginning to end over and over again, until my hands are over used or someone needs me for something (or I'm really hungry). Then, I may comment between performances on good and/or bad features of that particular performance. Then, and only if the tempo and cadence make an imperceptible match I will edit those different portions of the performances together. Some times, I may find a full performance that's "good enough" and won't embarrass me to post or add to a Soundcloud list. Those "good enough" takes tend to occur somewhere around 20-40 minutes of constant playing where I've reached a stage of being warmed up, have an immediacy in the familiarity of the tune, and when the hands and brain have not worn or burned out, yet. It at first felt like cheating but then read an article with Michael Hedges saying that he does something similar to that if necessary. Ha, I bet he didn't require nearly as many takes as I do! Best, Phil Donovan Last edited by pjd3; 02-12-2021 at 11:41 AM. |
#32
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Quote:
Story of my life Bob,
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Barry Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}: My SoundCloud page Some steel strings, some nylon. |
#33
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Quote:
I bolded the paragraph above that I wanted to respond to. I do appreciate your thoughts, Jim, and I also appreciate your last paragraph. I hesitated in writing my own comments -- that patching together a performance feels like cheating -- because I sensed that others might be offended by this comment. What I intended to write was that "it feels like cheating to me. And that's why I added the paragraph that I did not care or mind what others did. I recognize that this is just my own internal challenge. That when I record, most of the time I think of it as a performance because I am also video recording the performance for a YouTube video. So what I am doing these days is not making a studio recording, though, in fact, I am making the recording and video in my studio and I am using equipment and software that absolutely allows me to make composite recordings and to do all the cutting and pasting I might want to do. If I were making a CD, I would treat my recordings differently, and would certainly use cutting and pasting and punch-ins. When recording a YouTube video my own goal is to do it as a one-time-through kind of event, not a composite. And again, someone else doing exactly the same kind of YouTube video might feel that there is no reason it can't be pasted together from a bunch of recordings and videos. Maybe I will change my mind, especially if I can't do a one-time-through performance anymore. Who knows... If I work out on my 30-year-old Nordic Track machine in three, ten-minute segments with a little rest in between, is that the same thing as me completing a continuous 30-minute workout? In terms of calorie burn it is. If I'm trying to control weight and stay in some reasonable shape, does it make any difference? Probably not much. But I still like to get on that old machine and do 30 minutes all at once and do it at a reasonable rate, maybe to remind myself I can still do it. Still, it's getting harder to do that day after day as I get older. And that's similar to how I feel about recording. I like to do it the old fashioned way for my own personal challenge. Still, doing repeated punch-ins to get an acceptable vocal track recorded has been pretty much de rigueur since the advent of multi-track recording machines around the time of the Sergeant Pepper Beatles' album. So I guess when I think of "old-fashioned," I am thinking before the days of Sergeant Pepper, about what? 1967?. That's pretty far back! It's a cool thing that digital recording makes cutting and pasting so easy. I still have the tools for cutting and splicing audio recording tape. Just putting an album together and stringing together all the songs for an album involved cutting and pasting audio tape. This is an interesting discussion. - Glenn
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#34
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Glenn, I understood where you were going and I wasn't at all offended. No worries there. We all are going to develop our own work flows over time and as I said, there are no rules. We do what works for us.
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Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |
#35
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Yup, and they had no compunctions about duplicating and "flying in" a chorus or something from another part of the song. You've heard countless songs on the radio like that, for years.
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#36
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I've almost always ended up editing things together and then re-learning it from myself after I'm happy with the results.
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Journey OF660, Adamas 1581, 1587, 1881, SMT - PRS Cu22, Ibanez JEM-FP, S540, RG550, Fender Stratocaster Heil PR-35 : Audio Technica AE-6100, ATM5R : Beyer TG-V90r : Sennheiser 441, 609, 845, 906 : ElectroVoice ND767 HK 608i Friedman WW Smallbox, Marshall 4212 |
#37
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My mind works in funny ways. 2 pages playing straight through, with feeling and no mistakes (or just small variations ) is not a problem. 4 pages all of a sudden seems insurmountable with the red light on. With the red light off, no problem. Maybe if the light on my recorder was a different color....
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Barry Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}: My SoundCloud page Some steel strings, some nylon. |
#38
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Somehow this post got duplicated...
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar Last edited by Doug Young; 02-13-2021 at 07:55 AM. |
#39
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Even "live" recordings these days often have "post-production", which can even include the performers coming in and fixing parts. So if your goal in recording is to document your progress, give you feedback on how you would sound live, or as a personal achievement measure, then "1-take, no edits" is a good goal. If you're trying to create a good product, you do what you need to do. For me, there's a balance - often it's just easier to be able to play all the way thru and not need to edit, and there's a question of where I want to spend my time - should I spend a few more hours practicing to where I can record in one take, or spend a few hours editing? Of course, doing video, where editing options are much more limited tilts things toward the "practice until you can play it" side of things.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#40
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#41
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Yes, I wonder if the record light should be some color other than red. Of course then we'd be writing up the mistakes we made when the blue light came on! The truth is, I really enjoy recording. I make my share of mistakes, just like anyone else. But it's such a privilege to be able to record music and go through that creative process. And to have a product when I am done. Performed music just goes off into space somewhere. Not that it doesn't have value; it does. But recorded music is a record. It's like writing a thought down down verses thinking something. - Glenn
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#42
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Do you ever record a long song in sections?
Hi Bob, I just saw this so wanted to chime in. In the last 6 months or so I have started putting pieces together from multiple takes. Previously, including my recording of Bill Coulters Si Bheag Si Mhor, I always worked up to one full take but recently I have found I get a better end result if I play multiple takes and pick the best.
I tend to try and segment a piece and play it well so that there less tension and worry - when I get to the end of the section I always carry on and try to play the rest of the piece but usually there will be an error so I’ll stop. If there’s a really challenging section I will just play that alone until I get a decent recording. Ultimately it’s a balance between the best end result and the satisfaction of a one take recording..
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Burguet AC-007 (2003 - Cedar/Rosewood) Webber OM (2009 - Sitka/Sapele) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8A...2TVEhWes2Djrig Last edited by Wrighty; 02-13-2021 at 03:20 AM. |
#43
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Recording a verse >stopping ,,,recording a chorus > stopping ,,, recording another verse > stopping etc. etc. Which is a different technique and subject than using pieces from multiple takes. Just noting
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1 |
#44
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#45
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I was not meaning to imply off topic, if it came across that way , just that there are different methods . sall good
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1 |