LR Baggs Voiceprint (Soundscape) DI FIRST LOOK!

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

My experience is that I spent two weeks re-installing and never got close to what I had at the 2nd try (which I thought was not right because of strong sensor unbalance) but indeed gave the best overall tone. What Trance needs is to provide separate tone control for the sensors. The nasty high-end comes from one of the sensor (I don’t remember which) and a “too hard” bond...

The MVT is a must to have the tone knob and get rid of this nasty high end... it is a pity because you got rid of it, it is a less extraordinary.
Pickup... other SBT usually lack high end.... The trance audio amulet has tons to spare.

Yeah, that was my finding as well and why I ultimately took the Amulet out. The high end is a bit much and even with the tone control, I could only do so much. To be fair, I hear this high end in every Amulet demo I have listened to so I feel like if you are okay with it then the pickup is great, if not, it’s a bit annoying.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by MaurysMusic

When you say this, are you judging the pickup in a direct-to-digital situation? Are you using it into a computer or onstage? I ask, because onstage I've found my OM-28V w/Amulet M to have "the right amount" of high-end. I play mine through a Bose L1.

I would say both but of course primarly direct-to-digital because I don't gig much. However, I would say the Bose L1 is a good match because it has only medium drivers and has a very soft top end. WHile the tweeter equipped speaker I have (SR JAM150+ & JBL eon one compact have more agressive high end)

Note that I agree going through an amp helps, but having the tone pots helps even more.

Doug Young also set his tone pot in the middle. [I am not making that up]


Look at 4:20

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

I

Doug Young also set his tone pot in the middle.

Yes, I prefer the sound with the tone rolled off. Usually too harsh when full open, tho it depends on the guitar. ToneDexter mitigates that quite a bit. I've tried training with it full open and just let ToneDexter deal with "correcting" it, and that works well, tho my saved settings were trained with the Trance rolled back to the middle or so, then I can still brighten or darken the ToneDexter'd sound with the MVT control. It is interesting, ignoring ToneDexter, that the MVT control seems to do something nice to the sound that I can't achieve with my preamp tone controls.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

It is interesting, ignoring ToneDexter, that the MVT control seems to do something nice to the sound that I can't achieve with my preamp tone controls.

Maybe the tone control behave more like a Lowpass filter than a shelf filter... I always had that feeling. But I might be wrong. Maybe it is an active treble shelf EQ in which case, the full open position would mean treble boost. [I just wrote the question to Gary]

PS: I did train my HD-28 amulet equipped with the tone fully opened.... might try your way

[guitaniac]

Thanks for the demo, Aaron.

I hope that you'll keep us updated on how well the anti-feedback circuitry works in a live setting with your SBT-equipped guitars. I recall that Lloyd Baggs remarked that the anti-feedback feature is the Voiceprint's "sleeping dog" feature. I'm hoping that it'll make my iBeam-equipped D28 more usable for bare-fingered picking in a noisy setting.

[AeroUSA]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Thanks for the demo, Aaron.

I hope that you'll keep us updated on how well the anti-feedback circuitry works in a live setting with your SBT-equipped guitars. I recall that Lloyd Baggs remarked that the anti-feedback feature is the Voiceprint's "sleeping dog" feature. I'm hoping that it'll make my iBeam-equipped D28 more usable for bare-fingered picking in a noisy setting.

I’m sure it will be fine. I don’t know when I’ll be playing out in NYC to test it but I do play in my studio in front of my speakers so it’s also a pretty good test.

[barth1234]

Would this pedal replace my baggs venue di and also the align series compressor? Is the built in one the same?

And will it work with the magnetic M80?

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by barth1234

Would this pedal replace my baggs venue di and also the align series compressor? Is the built in one the same?

And will it work with the magnetic M80?

IR does not work with magnetic pickups. So M80 is excluded.

It is due to the fact that a magnetic pickup does not have a "linear response" in the sens it applies a comb filter that is different for each strings. It means in an ideal world, the Baggs Voiceprint DI should apply a different IR for each string. This is impossible. That is why Fishman Aura, Tonedexter and all the pedal alike do not really work for magnetic pickup.

It does not mean it is forbidden. Some people like it. But most don't and there is a reason for that.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

IR does not work with magnetic pickups. So M80 is excluded.

I believe Baggs has said the Voiceprint will work fine with magnetic pickups (I seem to recall them telling me that when I visited and got a demo last year). We'll have to see.

[barth1234]

Thnx for the responses.

On the baggs home page I see pictures of the app for the voiceprint with a soundboard pickup.

Anyway:
- would you still use a baggs venue di when using this;
- is the multiband compressor the same as the one in the align series session?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by barth1234

Thnx for the responses.

On the baggs home page I see pictures of the app for the voiceprint with a soundboard pickup.

Anyway:
- would you still use a baggs venue di when using this;
- is the multiband compressor the same as the one in the align series session?

The Voiceprint is a DI with tons of EQ (both the "learned" kind and manual additional EQ), so I don't see what the Venue would add. You don't need two preamp/DIs.

No idea about the compressor. It wouldn't be surprising to see Baggs reuse something they already have, but the Voiceprint is a digital box, so it also makes sense that it would be totally redesigned to fit into the new digital design.

[jonfields45]

I understand all the reasons why an IR is inappropriate for the typical magnetic pickup. The systems where it does work are hexaphonic with the pickup adjacent to the saddle.

That said I did do some experimentation with IRs and magnetic pickups. I concluded it was at best subtle but not subtle bad, at least for what I tried.

The Voiceprint seems like a pretty pricey solution for a magnetic pickup where the value add might only be EQ.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I believe Baggs has said the Voiceprint will work fine with magnetic pickups (I seem to recall them telling me that when I visited and got a demo last year). We'll have to see.

Hi Doug,

Then Lloyd has a secret weapon to discriminate each string signal... Honestly without AI kind of algorithm, I doubt it is possible...and I don't see that coming yet to the market.

Few years ago, I asked one skilled person to run one of those AI algorithm to do it... and he told me it failed. I am pretty sure it is possible, but it does require some "real" work. (I mean not just applying stuff you read in Signal Processing books from the 70s like I do)

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Hi Doug,

Then Lloyd has a secret weapon to discriminate each string signal... Honestly without AI kind of algorithm, I doubt it is possible...and I don't see that coming yet to the market.

No idea, maybe they just don't want to say it won't "work" with one of their pickups. The definition of "works" is a bit vague, of course. The EQ will certainly work, and a sound will come out. Will the IR be as good as with a UST? Everyone gets different results, so it will be hard to say. Aaron's the only person I know of who has seen the final product, so we'll have to see what works well and what doesn't.

But there do seem to be some differences between the algorithm they're using and at least ToneDexter. I trained my Barbera on the prototype, for example, and it worked fine, while ToneDexter gets confused by the out-of-phase strings (fixable by playing only every other string). With the Baggs approach, I just played, and it worked just as well as with an Anthem (the other pickup we tried when I was there).

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

But there do seem to be some differences between the algorithm they're using and at least ToneDexter. I trained my Barbera on the prototype, for example, and it worked fine, while ToneDexter gets confused by the out-of-phase strings (fixable by playing only every other string). With the Baggs approach, I just played, and it worked just as well as with an Anthem (the other pickup we tried when I was there).

That's very interesting.

If I remember well, at the begining of the training process the app asks you to hit the bridge right?

It might be a clue.
* First it can help them to discriminate the room response when performing the actual IR training. [one of their claim]
* The correction following from that might have helped with the Barbera... I am not sure why.

... Something to dig for sure...