The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 04-19-2021, 09:53 PM
emtsteve emtsteve is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Illinois (reluctantly)
Posts: 1,744
Default

Make sure to play all the Gibson slopes, the J-15 in particular is way under budget and may appeal. A nice Koa Taylor is worth checking out also.

Anyway, welcome, have fun picking, and let us know what you decide (with pics of course).
__________________
EMTSteve
a couple guitars too many
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-19-2021, 10:17 PM
Zandit75 Zandit75 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Penguin, Tasmania, OZ
Posts: 1,253
Default

Everyone else's comments are spot on, but possibly also irrelevant.
Dollar value has little to do with perception some times, it's just what feels good to you. What one person thinks will be perfect for you will sound like rubbish to you. This is where playing everything you can will fill in the blanks for you. I spent a whole afternoon playing every guitar in a well stocked shop several years ago, and the best guitar in the shop was a $300 Tanglewood!!

One thing about perceived sound for the player compared to what the audience hears, try playing in front of a reflective surface for the sound to bounce back you, or look for a model that has a sound port fitted.
__________________
1995 Maton EM725C - Solid 'A' Spruce Top, QLD Walnut B&S, AP5 Pickup
2018 Custom Built OM - Silver Quandong Top, Aussie Blackwood B&S, Fishman Matrix Infinity Mic Blend Pickup
2021 Faith Neptune Baritone - Solid Englemann Spruce Top, Solid Indonesian Rosewood B&S, Fishman INK3 Pickup
2022 Yamaha SLG200S Silent Guitar
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-19-2021, 10:19 PM
darylcrisp darylcrisp is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,718
Default

well, i was going to recommend one of the new Martin 00-18's, an amazing instrument with a lux tone and wonderful bass, but good string balance overall, then i skimmed thru your post and saw you were no longer interested in a Martin.

read on, here and there, and what i would suggest is one of the Japan built Yamaha's. Something like the LS36 or LS56. it might take you some time to find one of these for sale, but they might work for you quite well.

d
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-20-2021, 06:23 AM
emtsteve emtsteve is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Illinois (reluctantly)
Posts: 1,744
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zandit75 View Post
...Dollar value has little to do with perception some times, it's just what feels good to you...
This 100%.

Also, don't forget the classifieds here - there are always some very nice guitars listed at reasonable prices.
__________________
EMTSteve
a couple guitars too many
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-20-2021, 06:32 AM
Goodallboy Goodallboy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: East TN
Posts: 6,847
Default

You already acknowledged that playing more guitars is the answer.

You already possess enough experience and knowledge about what you want to be able to make an intelligent choice.

Be cautious about overthinking it. It’s one guitar, I’m satisfied with one guitar, and for me as a singer songwriter, it’s all I want, but others who need/want more have multiple acoustic guitars. You may be in that camp and no one guitar will check your many boxes.

I applaud your grasp of what you are seeking, so now go out there and find YOUR guitar.
__________________
McCollum Grand Auditorum Euro Spruce/Brazilian
PRS Hollowbody Spruce
PRS SC58
Giffin Vikta
Gibson Custom Shop ES 335 '59 Historic RI
‘91 Les Paul Standard
‘52 AVRI Tele - Richie Baxt build
Fender American Deluxe Tele
Fender Fat Strat
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-20-2021, 06:43 AM
Methos1979's Avatar
Methos1979 Methos1979 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seacoast, NH
Posts: 8,070
Default

Hello and welcome to AGF! We apologize in advance for the beating your wallet/bank account is about to take!

You are me, about 8-9 years ago. If I look back far enough, I posted the same thing back then. Here's the deal: You're overthinking it when it comes to tone. You're also spending way too much time worrying about it. First of all, you're never going to find the perfect guitar from a tone aspect. Even if you do, you won't realize it until after you've sold it off to buy something else while chasing down the perfect tone machine. What I ended up doing is buying a couple acoustics - always used - and I kept rotating them out. One in, one out. I'd always have a 'keeper' and 'trader'. The one that I currently liked the most was the keeper and would stay while the other would be sold or traded here in the classifieds for something new. In 8 years I've bought/sold/traded nearly 40 guitars trying to find that perfect tone.

I now know that it really doesn't exist but it was (and is) still fun going though the process and I've learned SO much about guitars and what I do like. I started on small body, sitka/EIR guitars and slowly got to bigger body guitars with sitka/mahogany and all mahogany with some exotic wood offerings in there as well. What I did discover in the process is that ultimately the tone, while important, is not the end-all, be-all. Sure, good tone is important but what's most important is that the guitar is comfortable to play and fits you ergonomically so you want to play it. I've also discovered that specific things aren't nearly as important to me as it used to be. I used to be very picky with things like neck shape, nut and string spacing and body size. Now I know that I can and will acclimate to almost anything.

As for practicing/playing/learning and burning out, the best thing for me was to form a little band which in my case was forming an acoustic duo with my wife on vocals. This made learning new songs way more fun. We went from the living room to open mics to gigging in about 5 years and we're still going strong. My guitar collection continues to grow and change. I now have a three guitar stable as my default that consists of my high-end, stay-at-home tone monster guitar, my live amplified gigging guitar and my busking/travel/beater/backup/take anywhere guitar. It's less about the delicate nuances of tone than about which guitar can fill that role the best.

For the live amplified gigging guitar it's a guitar with a multi-source onboard proprietary pickup system (like the Takamine you dismissed, but in my case Cole Clark). For the backup busking beater it's a Rainsong carbon fiber with an LR Baggs Element Stage Pro (also an onboard barn door system). Neither of these guitars will win a supreme tone contest but they both fill their roles perfectly like no other guitar can for me. Last is my high-end tone monster. This can be any maker and comes down to your budget. I've slowly climbed the ladder and just this past December found my Zen guitar in a Froggy Bottom H-12 Deluxe in spruce/EIR. Back to where I started.

So relax, buckle up and enjoy the ride. Check out the classifieds here and on Reverb and grab the one that you think you'll like. Get it used and in good condition for a fair price and you'll be able to sell it down the road for something else that peaks your interest. Good luck and have fun. And most important, make sure you keep us posted on what you buy with detailed NGD posts with lots of great photos!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-20-2021, 07:34 AM
jaytee32 jaytee32 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 406
Default

See if you can get your hands on a Eastman, either the 400 series (I love my 422 non-cutaway) or the E series - E6/E8/E10/E20. You'll either like them or you won't ... I recently picked up the AC422 after not playing it for quite a while, it's really a fantastic instrument.

In the 2000 to 3000 dollar range, probably the nicest guitar I've played was a Huss and Dalton dreadnought (don't remember the model).
__________________
Just Keep Moving
--
2023 Gibson J-45 50s Faded
2022 Taylor AD17e Blacktop
2016 Yamaha FG820 Autumn Burst
2015 Eastman E6D
2011 Eastman AC422
2008 Taylor Big Baby
1977 Alvarez 5059
-- no longer with us
2018 Taylor 324CE V
2013 Takamine P1NC
2010 Eastman AC420
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-20-2021, 08:40 AM
phavriluk phavriluk is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Granby, CT
Posts: 2,913
Default

OP: I suggest buying the guitar, not its price tag. And there seems to be a strong interest in electronics. Maybe upgrading an already-in-the-house guitar with no-cost-spared electronics would do the job. That and an expert's setup.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:02 AM
Photojeep Photojeep is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Sparks, NV
Posts: 2,230
Default

Welcome to the AGF!

The advice you get here will be as diverse as the members themselves. Remember that someone else's opinion is as good as the paper it's not printed on ...

Having said that, my advice is to keep playing but use your ears rather than the statistics of the guitar. Guitars are made to be played so play a bunch and pick the one that SOUNDS best to you.

I have never understood people saying, "Buy XXX model of XXX brand. There are hundreds of used ones available" without any acknowledgement that this specific model simply may NOT be available in your area.

There are few guarantees in life but along with death and taxes, I feel that you will end up buying and selling several different guitars as you search for the "ONE"

Best regards and have fun in your search,
PJ
__________________
A Gibson
A couple Martins
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:07 AM
roylor4 roylor4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: McLeansville, NC
Posts: 7,449
Default

Sounds like you should focus on these sizes: 000, OM, GA and L (Concerto also).

Rosewood B&S brings more bass to the game, but also tend to add a lot of overtones. I had a very nice OM w/RW but felt that Hog/hog and Spruce/Hog fit my ears and voice better. If you liked the 414 but the tone just wasn't quite there for you, you should give the 424 a try. Very full and warm without what I sometimes hear as brittleness in the Taylor line.

Larrivee's can be difficult to find in the wild. They are well built and a great value. The tone is very even from string to string and you should test drive their OM's and L's if you get a chance.
__________________
Roy


Ibanez, Recording King, Gretsch, Martin
G&L, Squier, Orange (x 2),
Bugera, JBL, Soundcraft

Our duo website - UPDATED 7/26/19
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:10 AM
ozanbilgin ozanbilgin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Brussels
Posts: 76
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brawndo View Post
Hello All. Any advice or learning tools are welcome. Thanks for bearing with the essay.

I'm close to nailing down a new acoustic, but I'm also not sure. Haha. Going kind of crazy. I haven't stopped learning and testing and listening. I'm getting burnt out and leaning towards the first plastic ukulele that someone tries to sell me. I was planning on spending roughly 2000-3000.

What I want:
1. relatively even EQ -I love the general tone of sitka/eir, but don't like how scooped it can be. I like present, crisp mids available. I've been attracted to myrtlewood, for body at least, bc it tends to have an even EQ, projects well when a top, and is pretty. This puts me in the breedlove wheelhouse, but I'm open to almost anything. My brain has been reeling with walnut, blackwood, ovangkol, sapele, etc. I was very attracted to redwood as a top at first, but I'm not so sure anymore.
2. Good projection. I want to thread the needle between something that can push it loudly with good headroom, but also respond dynamically when fingerpicking.
3. Low end that you can hear well when playing -I feel like lows and some mids "disappear" when you're the player, but magically reappear when you hear your recording or have another person play. This is more prominent to me on OM/concert/GA sizes, which are also the sizes I prefer, lol. (I do really like the Breedlove concerto size, as it seems to be sort of a weird dready/OM/GA thing in terms of versatility). Shop owners and other users give me conflicting information. For instance, I tried a Taylor 414(r) and it was lovely, but I didn't like the weaker low end and more than one person said: "that will open up in time." Others said: "get the guitar for how it sounds now, not for what you think it'll sound like one day!"
4. I love overtones/harmonics, but don't like it when they muddy the tone/stifle headroom when you hit it hard or leave them ringing. Where's the middle ground?
5. I need help with mids. Unless something is scooped to oblivion or all mahog I often have trouble picking out where they sit. Are there any playing tests to heard mid presence versus lows and highs? I have been hitting the D/G strings with random punch levels, or playing mid-ish chords like A minor (at various levels of intensity) to see how it holds together or if the fingered chord voice gets gobbled by lower and upper registers. It's been a long slog to train my ear beyond "wow that all mahog is very warm and fundamental heavy, but sounds a little flat" and "wow, that sitka/eir is blossoming on the high end and booms low, but there's something missing."
6. I really don't want anything with a console EQ in the body, like Takamine does. I love that LR Baggs Anthem.

Brands/bodies/tonewoods that I've liked:
a. Breedlove USA made stuff. Concert/concerto sizes in myrtlewood/myrtlewood, sitka/eir, adirondack/eir, sitka/mahog.
b. Furch: they've felt "Taylor-ish" in some ways, but also their own thing and very well made. The model colors are a bit confusing.
c. Larrivee sound good online, but I' haven't held one.
d. Eastman 822 sounds good as well, but is also not around.
e. Taylors are fine. I'm not as attracted to the biggest brands for some reason, particularly Martin. I liked the 414 and 814 just fine. I also like the 324 builder's edition, and it was surprisingly lively and "sustain-y" for mahog top. However, the max volume was kind of like cedar. It wouldn't get loud.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something. I'm sure it's already too much info anyway, so, whatever.

Thanks in advance for any input.
Did you try Yamaha LL16 or LS16?

Cheap, all solid wood, very balanced and loud.

If you want electronics as well, go for Yamaha A5/AC5 series. Increadible value for money.

If you haven't tried a Yamaha yet, you are missing big time.
__________________
Many acoustics and a cheap electric guitar
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:17 AM
bufflehead bufflehead is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,689
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brawndo View Post
. No neck action stood out as superior for my styles of play. MAYBE Breedlove?
Welcome to the forum. Can't wait for the party.

I play a concert-size Breedlove and find it comfortable. Great playability, good acoustic balance.
__________________
1 dreadnought, 1 auditorium, 1 concert, and 2 travel guitars.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:18 AM
DCCougar DCCougar is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 2,940
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brawndo View Post
...Taylors are fine. I'm not as attracted to the biggest brands for some reason, particularly Martin.
I noticed. I'm not big on Martins either, but I'd recommend a used Guild. Guys always mention how well balanced they are -- bass, mids, treble, but especially bringing the bass response up to match the other strings, which I consider the mark of a good higher-end guitar, a feature that's typically lacking in less expensive guitars.

I've bought a couple dozen guitars over the last 10 years or so, and I played exactly one of them before buying it. They were all bought used online. I guess I've had good luck once I decided to sell some of my less expensive guitars to fund a higher-end guitar. Of course, I did my research and always asked the seller lots of questions, but by golly, higher-end guitars do usually sound better (but not always in direct proportion to their cost).

I don't know, but I wouldn't get too caught up in the wood thing. It's hard to beat a good sitka top. Guild makes plenty of solid-back models, but they also put out these unique models that have a one-piece, arched, braceless fine laminate back, often in maple but also using mahogany and more rarely, rosewood. Yes, laminate. These kind of blow away the prejudice that all-solid guitars are always better. Guild's arch-back models are cannons! And they maintain that excellent balance between the strings.

Problem is, you'll probably have a hard time finding a USA-made Guild to play in one of your local stores. You'd likely have to take a leap getting one used online. Fortunately, Guilds are very consistently good, so you just want to ask about the action and neck angle, etc. I really like the jumbos, and I think the sound produced is well worth getting used to the ergonomics.

Alternatively, I second the suggestion to check out a Gibson J15.
__________________

2018 Guild F-512 Sunburst -- 2007 Guild F412 Ice Tea burst
2002 Guild JF30-12 Whiskeyburst -- 2011 Guild F-50R Sunburst
2011 Guild GAD D125-12 NT -- 
1972 Epiphone FT-160 12-string
2012 Epiphone Dot CH
 -- 2010 Epiphone Les Paul Standard trans amber 

2013 Yamaha Motif XS7

Cougar's Soundcloud page
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:27 AM
Bob from Brooklyn Bob from Brooklyn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Hamilton Square, NJ
Posts: 4,090
Default

One thing that just came to mind..

Taylor also has a 414RW (rosewood b&s) that might be worth seeking out.
__________________
Martin D18
Gibson J45
Martin 00015sm
Gibson J200
Furch MC Yellow Gc-CR SPA
Guild G212
Eastman E2OM-CD
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-20-2021, 10:05 AM
RLetson RLetson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 381
Default

Ears, hands, wallet. (And, given later posts, shoulders.)

That's pretty much it. Oh, and a recognition of the playing environment--a gigging guitar has its own subset of desiderata/practicalities. But that primal trio remains, and the ears/hands experience precedes the vocabulary that attempts to describe it.

I feel strange writing that last bit--I've spent my entire adult life sharpening my descriptive skills (teaching and writing, including writing about guitars and guitar music). But when I'm evaluating an instrument, it's the unfiltered experience that matters, not whether I can put words to it. (Nevertheless, the writer side of me will eventually give in to the urge to turn the non-verbal into the verbal.) It's not unlike buying footwear--I can rough out what I'm looking for when I talk to the salesman in the store, but the final decision comes from the (literal) ground up when I walk around in the candidates.

And like a footwear purchase, a guitar acquisition is highly personal, which means that outside advice tends to diminish in usefulness as it increases in specificity.

And long-winded, quasi-philosophical essays are perhaps least useful of all.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=