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Absolutely amazing.
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.[SIZE="2"] - Sean Debut album Time Will Tell now available on all the usual platforms -- visit SeanLewisMusic |
#47
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and in my case, my sense of intonation has improved the more i play. here is another analogy: playing to a click track or drummer. here is another: make-up at a beauty pageant. the world is full of artificial ways of improving something natural. and yes, it can and generally does get out of hand, but it's ubiquitous nevertheless. i see no reason to single out auto-tuned singers as the best example of taking integrity out of art. |
#48
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My question was simply this... if there is a recording you REALLY like, then later find out the vocals were autotuned, do you like the recording less? I had no point or question about talent in my post. I guess I could ask the same question about attending a live performance. If you thoroughly enjoyed the music, but at the end of the night found out the singer used an auto-tune device... would your enjoyment now be lessened?
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Rodger |
#49
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This is just sort of a aside, here, but can I just point out that Bob Dylan does not have pitch problems. Whatever you might feel about his timber and phrasing, the way he's blown out his voice in recent years, and the way he often follows, for effect, speech-like intonation contours rather than melodies, per se, he doesn't have problems singing on determined and appropriate pitches.
Just sayin' Louis |
#50
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but when i listen to this, sounds a little pitchy to me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IgMKFfiZxg now, compare it to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLnci-65qrs |
#51
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The other example is funny, but the effect of the very hard autotuning on the vocal for "Tangled Up in Blue" is, again, not an indication that he's got pitch problems. It actually indicates a few very interesting things about his artfulness as a singer. The main thing is to note how confused the autotune often is about which pitches to push the vocal toward. This is because Dylan is improvising with the relationship between speech pitches and the pitches of the song's loose melody (the song doesn't really have a fixed melody). The performance would have much less power if he couldn't land on and hold particular pitches when he needs to (even the ones that are deliberately dissonant). These are effects created by a singer in control of pitch; they're not accidents. No singer without control could ever create so many expressive accidents. I'm not going to argue that Dylan has always been consistent, and he has been struggling to express himself with a much deteriorated instrument in recent years (often with striking success), but I think there's a big difference between what Dylan does and what a singer with real pitch problems fails to do. Louis |
#52
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"it doesn't seem reasonable to expect a singer to be to sing perfectly on pitch unaided but accept a guitarist to tune using a machine."
I don't see how this is a valid analogy. Singing in tune is part of the performance. Tuning a guitar is not; it's something you do before performing. |
#53
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I'm a recording engineer with no love for autotune, been there done that and it has done nothing but lower the bar. It's a shame because there original intent of Autotune was to use it only if needed to help a great performance. Some day the Autotune sound is going to sound as dated as an 80's gated reverb and I can't wait
I couldn't imagine CSN&Y being auto tuned, It was the imperfections of their harmonies blending together to a chorusy effect that made the harmonies so thick and lush |
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but my analogies seem to be failing, so i must be off on a tangent (like a water buffalo in the desert, unable to know there is an oasis just over the next dune, instead trapped in a mirage of confusion - er, so to speak - no need to comment on that last analogy). |
#56
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What's funny is I've had some young singers in the studio who grew up on Autotuned music and have adopted the autoune sound into their native singing technique
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#57
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Louis |
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Leaving aside stuff like Imogen Heap's "Hide and Seek" (which was clearly heavily autotuned by design to get the unusual timbre, and is a very powerful song), there are a couple of different things: First, a lot of people listen to music for the sake of an emotional reaction. And if you can have a powerful emotional reaction to Bob Dylan (which many people clearly can ... although some struggle with it because of his poor singing) then there's no reason you can't have a powerful emotional reaction to something that's been touched up with autotune. Second, talent takes many forms, and there is more to singing that just hitting your pitches correctly. In fact, the problem I have with autotune is primarily NOT that it lets someone whose pitch isn't perfect hit notes - it's that it tends to blur out so much of the other stuff that, to me, makes a performance worthwhile. I often feel like autotune is a wall between the performer and audience. To say that an autotuned performance shows "no talent at all" is suggesting that the only reason we listen to music is to hear people hit pitches, and that's clearly not the case - otherwise we'd all only listen to conservatory grads sing scales. I generally feel that if I can notice the pitch-correction, there's a problem. (Again, examples like Imogen Heap's aside). But the interesting thing about that is that it suggests that, to me, integrity is irrelevant. What I'm complaining about is not the lack of integrity, but that the illusion isn't good enough. That is to say, only lie to me if you're good enough to get away with it. But I don't really care about the "talent" of the singer in abstract, divorced from their ability to evoke an emotional reaction in me. Probably my favorite live music experience involved Lizz Wright, and man, that lady can sing. On the other hand, I've had a lot of very powerful emotional experiences listening to Michael Stipe, and, really, he's nothing special as a vocalist. Peter Gabriel? No-one's idea of a great singer from a technical standpoint. He's not bad, of course, but clearly he demonstrates how there's more to talent than vocal chops. |
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Well we'll disagree; it's one of the best examples I've ever heard of.
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.[SIZE="2"] - Sean Debut album Time Will Tell now available on all the usual platforms -- visit SeanLewisMusic |
#60
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use vs. abuse, just like drugs or any other vice
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Martin J-40 Yairi JYM 86 |