Crypto Holders and any interest in using as payment for a guitar

[robj144]

Originally Posted by derekbertman

Congrats! I got in at the height in 2017 and lost about 95% of my initial investment which wasnt much and wasnt a big deal to me. I forgot about it for a couple of years until the pandemic and started following it again around March of last year. I am now up about 8x from what I have put into it. Its certainly been a wild ride and not for the weak hearted

I got in late winter 2017... around Feb/March 2017. I was never under at any point though.

[rokdog49]

When people say they “made money” in Crypto, I don’t understand what that really means.

[RP]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

When people say they “made money” in Crypto, I don’t understand what that really means.

I suppose it's a theoretical profit until one is actually paid more "spendable" currency than he originally paid. It seems like someone invents something and corners the market on that commodity and convinces others that it has value. By creating demand and maintaining supply, the item might increase in value but only to the extent there are enough "buyers" who are convinced of its value. This is similar to the crazies for Cabbage Patch Dolls, Pet Rocks and at Christmas when the newest and "bestest" game system comes out in short supply...

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by RP

I suppose it's a theoretical profit until one is actually paid more "spendable" currency than he originally paid. It seems like someone invents something and corners the market on that commodity and convinces others that it has value. By creating demand and maintaining supply, the item might increase in value but only to the extent there are enough "buyers" who are convinced of its value. This is similar to the crazies for Cabbage Patch Dolls, Pet Rocks and at Christmas when the newest and "bestest" game system comes out in short supply...

Yes and not to be argumentative to anyone, but no form of currency is secure or has any real “value” when it’s in a vacuum, no matter how it grows.
Only when it’s spent does it have value.
Dividends paid and then spent on something as in goods or services have value as they were acquired gains that were used for real stuff.
The closest thing I can think of for us is our variable annuity which we draw from as spendable income. It does retain a “cash value” and it is “guaranteed” to give us X amount of dollars monthly until we both die.
After that, our heirs receive the “cash value”, whatever is left. This of course means nothing until they spend it.

[robj144]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

When people say they “made money” in Crypto, I don’t understand what that really means.

To give one concrete example: I bought quite a few ETH tokens in 2017 for an average price of around $400 (I bought at different times.). I sold some of them in January so that I covered my investment and realized some profit, for around $1k, so I made $600 a token at the time.

However, I only sold some of them as I still hold some more and it's now $3400 a token.

I did the same for Bitcoin, Litecoin, etc... I have quite a few different crypotcurrencies.

[robj144]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

Yes and not to be argumentative to anyone, but no form of currency is secure or has any real “value” when it’s in a vacuum, no matter how it grows.
Only when it’s spent does it have value.
Dividends paid and then spent on something as in goods or services have value as they were acquired gains that were used for real stuff.
The closest thing I can think of for us is our variable annuity which we draw from as spendable income. It does retain a “cash value” and it is “guaranteed” to give us X amount of dollars monthly until we both die.
After that, our heirs receive the “cash value”, whatever is left. This of course means nothing until they spend it.

Variable annuities depend on investments too. It's not fundamentally any different than crypotcurrenices.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

When people say they “made money” in Crypto, I don’t understand what that really means.

You can buy and sell like stocks.

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by robj144

Variable annuities depend on investments too. It's not fundamentally any different than crypotcurrenices.

I beg to differ. Cryptocurrencies are unlike the vast majority of investments that might comprise an annuity’s portfolio. Cryptocurrency does not own or produce a product or service that produces income. Companies that offer stocks and bonds for purchase do own or produce products or services.

[robj144]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

I beg to differ. Cryptocurrencies are unlike the vast majority of investments that might comprise an annuity’s portfolio. Cryptocurrency does not own or produce a product or service that produces income. Companies that offer stocks and bonds for purchase do own or produce products or services.

I partially agree, but crypto offer a technology that will become ubiquitous within a few years.

Also, stocks are completely out of whack. Most prices are tied to rumors and psychology, not fundamentals. Not to mention financial instruments like some derivatives which are truly tied to nothing... see 2007/2008... and they are STILL largely unregulated.

I miss the days where you put your money in a savings account and got 10% interest. That makes sense to me. You let the bank lend money for loans and you got interest. To me, it's how things are supposed to work.

Now, if you want to actually grow your money in any appreciable way, you are forced into stocks or something similar. I personally don't like it much, but it's how it is now.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by robj144

Variable annuities depend on investments too. It's not fundamentally any different than crypotcurrenices.

Oh, but some are. The money we take out every month for our needs is accepted everywhere without the need for a conversion to cash.
The total “cash value” in our variable annuity is subject to the market fluctuations, but those fluctuations have zero effect on the monthly guarantee payments we receive. In addition, the cash value has in fact increased over time with the growth of the market. It is worth more today on paper than it was when we began our withdrawals. If we were forced to cash it all in today, the figure is larger than our original investment by a significant amount.
Of course, it could decline with a falling market, but our monthly payments received will never be less than they are today.
This annuity is also backed by the F.D.I.C. up to 250K and we are covered.
We also own another “fixed rate” annuity that has been in place for over 40 years. It pays 4% annually absolutely guaranteed until we begin to withdraw from it.
The two specific annuities we own aren’t available anymore, but there are still a lot of good ones.
Needless to say, these are not high risk investment tools, but our original variable annuity paid a guaranteed 6% and no matter what the market did it would never be worth less than when it was at its zenith if the market declined. Nice, huh.

[RP]

Originally Posted by TBman

You can buy and sell like stocks.

And vintage baseball cards...

Originally Posted by robj144

I partially agree, but crypto offer a technology that will become ubiquitous within a few years...

Or so those who invest in such things tell themselves and hope that others will also believe...

[Kerbie]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

This annuity is also backed by the F.D.I.C. up to 250K and we are covered.
We also own another “fixed rate” annuity that has been in place for over 40 years. It pays 4% annually absolutely guaranteed until we begin to withdraw from it.

Rok, the FDIC doesn't insure annuities. They insure a lot of investment tools that can be owned by annuities, but annuities are guaranteed only by the insurance company that sells them. Likewise, the guarantee attached to any part of an annuity is a promise by a company. It is not the same guarantee the federal government makes on its treasury instruments because it has full taxing authority.

[robj144]

Originally Posted by RP

And vintage baseball cards...



Or so those who invest in such things tell themselves and hope that others will also believe...

There is a 99.9% chance they will be ubiquitous in a few years. Research it a bit.

[buddyhu]

..............

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by Kerbie

Rok, the FDIC doesn't insure annuities. They insure a lot of investment tools that can be owned by annuities, but annuities are guaranteed only by the insurance company that sells them. Likewise, the guarantee attached to any part of an annuity is a promise by a company. It is not the same guarantee the federal government makes on its treasury instruments because it has full taxing authority.

You are correct, it’s the Insurance Companies.
I stand corrected by you and my wife, the bean-counter extraordinaire.