Circa Guitars/Collings

[jtacoustic]

I am in the market for a D-18 type dread. Narrowed the prospects to Circa and Collings. Question is...

Is the difference between a Circa and Collings appreciable enough to justify the added expense?

A Circa is likely going to run around 11-12K depending on appointments. The Collings 6-8K.

Both have great build quality. Thoughts?

[Jwills57]

I own two Collings dreadnoughts, a D1 Traditional Sunburst and a D2H Baked Top and I have played several Circa dreadnoughts over the years. Just my humble opinion, mind you, but with a Circa you are paying for a certain ambience, a certain cache that comes with the name and the romance of a guitar made by one and only one person. The Circas I have played were all exceptional guitars, no doubt; I couldn't find a single fault in any of them in terms of sound or craftsmanship. That being said the Circas, to my ears, were not better than my Collings guitars, which are both incredible instruments in their own right. To put it another way, I would rather have two new Collings dreadnoughts than one new Circa dreadnought. But you couldn't go wrong with either, just from the standpoint of musicality and construction.

[justonwo]

This will all be highly personal, and everyone has their own view on diminishing returns when it comes to hand made guitars. In my opinion, having played a number of Collings guitars (and owning one briefly), I’d say there’s enough improvement in tone with a Circa that - for me - it justifies the extra expenditure. There is an improvement in power, projection, and complexity over the Collings. I’m quite the opposite of Jwills57; I’d rather own one Circa than two Collings (even though I think Collings makes excellent guitars). I don’t think it’s a matter of paying for cachet. I know a number of solo builders who exceed the (again, quite excellent) performance of Collings. At least in my opinion.

If you are anywhere near the SF Bay Area, you are welcome to try my Circas.

[jklotz]

With a Circa, you can get a customized guitar to your exact specifications built by one guy. If it was like my custom (an Edwinson), you will communicate with the guy directly who is building your guitar regularly during the process. It's a really fun endeavor that I hope to be able to repeat some day. The wait times can be grueling though.

Collings have their own thing baked into the DNA of their guitars. If it appeals to you, nothing else will sound and play like one. I have one and I play it regularly. I'm not sure what customizations they will do on a commission, but most seem to be bought off the rack. Mine was. It's a great guitar by any standard, IMHO of course.

Maybe consider the 2 ways you'll go about acquiring one? From that standpoint, they are very different animals, so to speak.

[iim7V7IM7]

Honestly, no one can answer the question for YOU, only for themselves.

Collings is a fine large small shop manufacturer of acoustic and electric guitars. In the 1990s, Bill Collings set the bar for the market’s expectations in terms of high-end fit and finish. As with all makers, they have their own signature timbre that can vary a bit due to guitar to guitar variability. Myself, I am not a fan of the Collings timbre. They have what I perceive as a brightness to their timbre that is not my cup of tea. Mind you, I am not a Dreadnought player, so please take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Bourgeois, Collings, Froggy Bottom, Huss & Dalton, Preston Thompson and Santa Cruz all make flavors of a 25.4” scale length, 1-11/16” nut, Honduran Mahogany D Style guitars. I suggest that you play as many as you can to see if one companies timbre is more to your liking. All of these makers offer options in germs of woods, ergonomics and decoration as well. For me, among these small shops, Froggy Bottom and Santa Cruz are my personal favorites.

Additionally, California luthier Bruce Sexauer who recently stopped taking custom orders has a fine Honduran Mahogany/Adirondack Style 18 dreadnought for immediate sale on his website that you might also consider..

Regarding John, he is without a doubt on the short-list of both players and his fellow luthiers as setting the mark in traditional, Nazareth inspired custom guitars. He is popular for a reason. His waiting list is 2-3 years so that takes a certain type of patience. John has a second to none wood locker of soundboards and tonewoods. If you can articulate your likes, dislikes and playing style, tonal goals, John will make you a superb guitar perfectly suited to YOUR needs. The experience of specifying a guitar with a skilled luthier is miles away from dealing with a dealer to spec a guitar.

Is the difference worth it?

To some yes, to others no. That is why no one can answer the question for YOU. We all have our own value proposition asymptote where diminishing returns are no longer providing extra value. For me, I would take one Circa over multiple Collings seven days a week. John is one of the luthiers that I always recommend to players seeking a luthier made, Nazareth inspired guitar.

[FormerFoodie]

As others indicate, there's no way for any of us to answer this other than you. Not only is tone subjective, but everyone's financial situation is different so the is-the-additional-$-worth-it question is also subjective.

I can provide you with my thoughts as an owner of Collings and Circas:
Collings was my first foray into boutique guitars. I jokingly call them gateway guitars into the boutique world. They have a distinct tone - clarity and punch in spades is what I think of with a Collings. Their fit and finish is second to none. After nabbing a Collings acoustic, I eventually exposed myself to other builders and went down the rabbit hole of luthier built guitars. I have since sold my Collings acoustic, but still have a Collings electric and ukulele. My go to acoustic guitar is a Circa and I hope to never part with it. Does that mean that a Circa is better than a Collings? Nope, it's just that over time, my ears and hands gravitated to a Circa and other individual luthier built instruments.

As others indicate, your best bet is to go out and play Collings and Circas if you can. That way your ears will tell you if it's worth it to you.

More importantly, let us know what you end up deciding! We'd love to see a NGD post down the road!

[Bruce Sexauer]

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

Additionally, California luthier Bruce Sexauer who recently stopped taking custom orders has a fine Honduran Mahogany/Adirondack Style 18 dreadnought for immediate sale on his website that you might also consider..

FYI: I sold the guitar mentioned above a couple of weeks ago.

Beyond that, Collings is a stiffer build than Circa, judging by the half dozen of each I've played over the years. That means the Circa will be more immediately responsive, and that the Collings will tend toward more headroom. Both are fine instruments, but the Circa concept is generally more aligned with my work, philosophically.

[justonwo]

Disagree with you on the headroom, Bruce. The guitars he’s been building in the last 5 or 6 years with the taller X brace have incredible headroom. It would be hard to imagine a guitar having more.

[Kerbie]

jt... I can't answer your question because I'm madly in love with both of them!

[MikeMcKee]

I'm in no way trying to hijack this thread, but I figured I'd post this.

If I was in the market for a great D-18 style guitar I would check this one out. I currently own two of Gary's guitars and they are exceptional. Right there with the very best I've ever owned, and will never be sold.

Here's the link:
https://www.guitargal.com/collection...dnought-guitar

[gitarro]

I just wanted to add one comment on fit and finish where jt comes to circa guitars. There is no guitar that I have ever seen that is built to the level of build quality and fit and finish that exceeds what I have seen is achieved with a guitar made by John Slobod. If you buy a guitar from him, rest assured that whether the tone fits what u r looking for or not, from the perspective of build quality, it will be almost literally perfect.

[jtacoustic]

Originally Posted by FormerFoodie

As others indicate, your best bet is to go out and play Collings and Circas if you can. That way your ears will tell you if it's worth it to you.

More importantly, let us know what you end up deciding! We'd love to see a NGD post down the road!

Ah... there's the rub. It is easy enough to go play a Collings D-1 but finding a Circa to try is not as easy where I am located. A commissioned Circa would be a complete leap of faith. One I may be willing to take given the accolades here and elsewhere.

[Mr. Paul]

Don't recall ever seeing a Circa D18 style.

In his interview with Michael Bashkin (Luthier on Luthier podcast) John said the D18 style is easiest to get right and that there are many luthiers quite good at it. I would look at Circa first for a number of designs, not sure mahogany dread would be one of them.

[Jeff Mc]

Not sure what your need or time horizon is, but I would think that you could find a Collings D-1, D-1A, etc. on the internet new or used almost immediately. Not sure about Circa but it seems like most luthiers have at least a couple of years wait list. I have checked with several luthiers recently about building a MD and they all had 3-4 year wait lists.

[Kenny B]

I myself have often wondered how much better a Circa would be over my Collings offerings. I've only had a few minutes with a Circa in my hand, back in 2018 at the Woodstock Guitar show. The room was too noisy and I couldn't really make a qualified opinion. My Collings OM2HG from 2007 has been my goto OM for quite some time. Bought it used in 2009 at a "steal" price because of two little dings on the top. Had it setup once and since then it has been ridiculously good. Had it for sale on Reverb but had the pull the ad because I couldn't bear to let it go when I started getting too many inquiries.

I would love to get a similarly configured Circa OM (German/IRW) and compare the two in the comfort of my studio. Then I'd have to figure if the price differential is worth the cost of going with a Circa.

One other note, I believe I've owned over the years 6 other Collings OMs (one with adi/braz) and one Huss & Dalton (redwood/walnut). Yet the OM2HG (German/IRW) is the one I've kept. Don't know if any of this helps the person wanting a dreadnaught but there are plenty of good suggestions here for that.

One other thing, I think the assessment that a Circa would have more headroom and be more responsive is true. For me, headroom or the ability to really bang out a tune on an OM or Dread is not that important. The response thing is really important.