Bone saddle for Taylor 314ce?

nkshirsagar · #1 05-10-2022, 01:05 AM

Hello,

I got myself a new taylor 314ce from sadek music, Deira branch, Dubai.

I love the sound the micarta saddle generates. However the micarta saddle was sanded too low during initial setup in Dubai, and when I came back to my home in Pune, India, because it was buzzing, I gave it to a luthier in Pune who glued a carbon fibre strip below the saddle, and also set the neck angle correctly (was 1.8 degrees off) and now the guitar sounds fantastic (review up here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKAYkI2atDU ) , with the only small gripe being a very slight buzz only on the first fret of the base E string, and only on that particular fret and string, and that too doesn't happen if I am careful to hit it a bit softly. (I'm not sure whether to do anything about this buzz, but I might try a truss rod small loosening adjustment to check if that helps. I don't want to spoil the fantastic low action though.. so I may just let it be this way and play the base soft, anyway I play fingerstyle pieces mostly)

But I've read that a bone saddle would make a difference in most guitars. Would it make this guitar sound even better? I am not sure whether the current sound is warm, or bright, or dark, because its difficult for me to label the sound I hear as "bright" or "warm", etc, but would the sound be better with more sustain and less "harsh" with a bone saddle?

Also, which bone saddle would you advise, would it be the official taylor one (wave compensated), or Bob Colosi, who I wrote to and who really responded quick and gave me good advise about the current micarta + carbon fibre saddle, which he said would sound just as good as a complete micarta saddle, so there was no need to worry about the carbon shim glued below the current micarta saddle, and no need to get a new (shimless) micarta saddle at all if it was micarta I wanted. He did however say bone would be an "upgrade", but I'd like to check if anyone has put a bone saddle on THIS particular guitar and liked the result. Other saddle materials also welcome as inputs!

Thanks!
-Nikhil.

Nick84 · #2 05-10-2022, 01:15 AM

The official Taylor one will just drop straight in with a tiny bit of sanding. I’ve used the Taylor wave saddles and found them to be of consistently good quality.

ljguitar · #3 05-10-2022, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkshirsagar

…I've read that a bone saddle would make a difference in most guitars. Would it make this guitar sound even better?

Hi Nikhil
I prefer the sound/tone and response of bone over micarta. Others disagree with me (in the extreme).

If you bought a bone saddle (Taylor, or Guitarsaddles.com, or elsewhere) and have it adjusted, then you at least have a backup saddle, and you could decide which is best for you.

nkshirsagar · #4 05-15-2022, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Nikhil
I prefer the sound/tone and response of bone over micarta. Others disagree with me (in the extreme).

If you bought a bone saddle (Taylor, or Guitarsaddles.com, or elsewhere) and have it adjusted, then you at least have a backup saddle, and you could decide which is best for you.

Hello,

thanks for your reply. How would you describe the change in sound that the bone saddle made? Did you get more sustain? Did the guitar sound "harsher" as some folks have mentioned, or more "brittle"? Overall is the sound brighter, or darker. I'd really like some kind of idea of what the bone saddle would do before I go about setting one up.

biotechmgr · #5 05-15-2022, 11:00 PM

Hi, I have a 314ce and offer some advice.
If you like your current tone then why spend money to change it?
If you cannot characterize the tone of your guitar then it might be better to wait to do something more. I think it is OK to be a tone hound, but it works better when you have an idea of what you seek.
Your playing style will have a bearing on this too.

To my ear, a 314 sitka/sapele is bright, in a high frequency range.
Check the tone charts for tonewoods which confirms this for sapele.
Picking and fingerstyle work well.
Strumming tends to bright and brash unless a lighter attack is used.

My advice for experimentation is with strings and picks. Especially in picks I have found interesting and marked differences in tonality.

Have fun whatever you decide!

nkshirsagar · #6 05-16-2022, 12:59 AM

Thanks Chris,

Yes, I agree. The only reason I want to get it done is simply to understand what change the bone saddle would make. I'd then decide between the current micarta(plus carbon shim glued to it) and the bone. I'm also itching to try the bone because it would be shimless, and while people have assured me the glued carbon shim would sacrifice no tone currently, I'm still a bit wary about using shims below the saddle, even if glued.

And lastly, its just an experiment to try to optimize this guitar. Yes, strumming it isnt the best sound compared to a darker cort or martin but the picking or classical pieces sound really nice due to the sustain and tone I currently get.

-Nikhil

sstaylor58 · #7 05-16-2022, 06:13 AM

I have a 314ce. I got a bone saddle from McNichols, and it helped with the fullness of the sound. Not a lot but perceptible to me. If you feel yours is harsh or bright when strumming, try phosphor bronze strings. I use elixirs or D’addario XT’s. Great overall guitar in my book. Good luck!

nkshirsagar · #8 05-16-2022, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sstaylor58

I have a 314ce. I got a bone saddle from McNichols, and it helped with the fullness of the sound. Not a lot but perceptible to me. If you feel yours is harsh or bright when strumming, try phosphor bronze strings. I use elixirs or D’addario XT’s. Great overall guitar in my book. Good luck!

thanks a lot, this helps.

redi · #9 05-16-2022, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkshirsagar

which bone saddle would you advise, would it be the official taylor one (wave compensated), or Bob Colosi

The quality and fit of Bob Colosi's work I think is outstanding, FWIW.

Acoustic Corky · #10 05-16-2022, 08:56 AM

I much preferred the Taylor wave micarta saddle to the Bob Colosi bone saddle in my 2004 Taylor 310. Hope this helps.

nkshirsagar · #11 06-10-2022, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acoustic Corky

I much preferred the Taylor wave micarta saddle to the Bob Colosi bone saddle in my 2004 Taylor 310. Hope this helps.

could you please explain why, and what difference you noticed?

mawmow · #12 06-11-2022, 07:38 AM

Well, I guess you bought a used guitar nobody could setup properly.

Making your own nut and saddle is not a magical process : You only
need crude bone block you would taylor to copy the original ones.
Sand paper, usual medium and little files and patience are the only
"tools" you actually need.

The buzz at first fret means the crease for low E in the nut is used.
You could just shim the nut asymetrically (more under E than e) to correct
the buzz or order a new nut if you cannot make one by yourself.

Glennwillow · #13 06-11-2022, 09:07 AM

I prefer the sound of a bone saddle compared the standard Tusq or Micarta used in Taylor guitars, but not everyone does. For me it adds a little more bass, which I prefer, and does reduce some of the harshness of Tusq or Micarta.

I got my bone saddle online from Bob Colosi.

- Glenn

ljguitar · #14 06-11-2022, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkshirsagar

Hello,

thanks for your reply. How would you describe the change in sound that the bone saddle made? Did you get more sustain? Did the guitar sound "harsher" as some folks have mentioned, or more "brittle"? Overall is the sound brighter, or darker. I'd really like some kind of idea of what the bone saddle would do before I go about setting one up.

Hi nkshirsagar…
I"m sorry I missed your question! Just saw it today (June 11th).

The bone saddle made my EIR/Cedar 414ce (built 1999) sound purer, less brittle on notes and inversions in the high range, and a smoother tone when strumming.

You mentioned the word 'harsh'…the Taylor 414ce (EIR/Cedar) never did sound harsh, but when the bone saddle was installed, it toned it down without losing volume or projection.

This is with me playing it, with .011 gauge strings, and I'm a full-time, all-flesh fingerstyle player. I only use a hint of nails for emphasis sometimes. The rest of the time, I play with the flesh of my fingertips.

I use bone saddles in all my acoustic guitars and they emphasize the same characteristics in all my acoustic guitars.

Rudy4 · #15 06-11-2022, 04:16 PM

MOST guitars benefit from a bone saddle, but Taylor doesn't fit that mold. Many casual listeners will perceive Taylor's signature tone as being too bright / edgy, and dropping a bone nut in will exacerbate that tone.

You might want to think twice about replacing the Micarta saddle.

I question that you bought a new Taylor and the neck set was 1.8 degrees off. That's virtually unheard of, and if the shop where you had the neck "reset" wasn't an authorized Taylor repair facility it's highly unlikely that you got the precision tapered shims required for a reset. It's POSSIBLE to make them, but there aren't a lot of shops that can duplicate the precision of the real deal CNC produced tapered shim set.

I'd also think twice about any shop that sands away "too much" of the existing saddle. Taylors are engineered to use shim change out if anything other than a slight change in saddle height is necessary. Something sounds fishy with the whole setup job.

BUT... As long as it pleases you then that's all that is necessary.