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Old 06-23-2009, 01:55 PM
banpreso banpreso is offline
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Default Need Help - Pierre Bensusan Crazy Strech

ok, ok. i don't expect to be able to do it tomorrow, but right now i'm not even conviced that it's possible for me! i need some encouragement and advice from the fine folks here regarding the super strech chords of pierre bensusan.

let's say... this chord, capo 2nd fret: 0 4 2 4 7 0 (treble to bass)

i have pierre's book and all, but still, the strech between the ring finger and pinky just seemed impossible.

please help! please tell me this is possible for me, maybe not tomorrow, but sometime down the road!

thanks.
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Old 06-23-2009, 02:02 PM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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What tune is that from? it doesn't seem like something I've run into with Pierre. he does have a big stretch between his 3rd and 4th fingers, but this seems a bit extreme
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Old 06-23-2009, 02:06 PM
Bryan T Bryan T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banpreso View Post
ok, ok. i don't expect to be able to do it tomorrow, but right now i'm not even conviced that it's possible for me! i need some encouragement and advice from the fine folks here regarding the super strech chords of pierre bensusan.

let's say... this chord, capo 2nd fret: 0 4 2 4 7 0 (treble to bass)

i have pierre's book and all, but still, the strech between the ring finger and pinky just seemed impossible.

please help! please tell me this is possible for me, maybe not tomorrow, but sometime down the road!

thanks.
That is a big stretch. Does the high string need to be open?

I'd play it: 042452 (EDIT - This is incorrect, as I misread the original post. The correct version is in my post below.)

We spent a lot of time working on stretching when I studied with him. He certainly has a wide reach. 1357xx is pretty easy for him.

Bryan

Last edited by Bryan T; 06-24-2009 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 06-23-2009, 03:22 PM
wagtail wagtail is offline
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Default Bensusan

What were your stretching exercises like?
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Old 06-23-2009, 03:32 PM
Bryan T Bryan T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtail View Post
What were your stretching exercises like?
We'd start up near the 12th fret with the fingers on adjacent frets. Then we'd add a one fret gap between the index and middle. Then add a one fret gap between the middle and ring. Then a one fret gap between the ring and pinky. We'd keep all of the non-moving fingers on the neck. Then we'd move the pattern down the neck until we ended up with 1357xx.

A quick example (not exactly what we did, but similar) would be:

4567xx
3567xx
2467xx
1357xx

Pretty tough for some of us.
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Old 06-23-2009, 03:37 PM
banpreso banpreso is offline
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the chord is used in the middle part of wuwei, just once.

even if i don't fret down the 7th fret, and leave that open, it still sounds pretty nice, but he's got more of those strech chords on other songs of his i like, so i really would like to learn to nail them.

how do you guys practice for streches? can you guys grab the 3rd chord in L'Alchimiste? (something like 5 x 3 2 3 0)
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:03 PM
Bryan T Bryan T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banpreso View Post
even if i don't fret down the 7th fret, and leave that open, it still sounds pretty nice,
If you fret it my way, then you still get all of the notes.
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:07 PM
banpreso banpreso is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan T View Post
If you fret it my way, then you still get all of the notes.
i'll go home and give that a try. he plays that chord as a long arpeggio, so order of notes does matter some what, but i'll give it a shot, and practice that stretching exercise at the same time.

right now i'm not even that close in getting the chord, but maybe i'll get there someday. i used to have problem grabbing 0 0 1 2 2 4 in standard tuning, but not anymore, so maybe this can also be conquered.
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:32 PM
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That's a tough song, generally for my fat fingers. You can always move the capo up another fret, LOL.
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  #10  
Old 06-24-2009, 02:00 AM
mmmaak mmmaak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banpreso View Post
let's say... this chord, capo 2nd fret: 0 4 2 4 7 0 (treble to bass)
EDIT: Nevermind, I just realized I read the chord backwards (you used non-standard notation)!. Certain things are simply physically impossible without having the correct physique, i.e. longer fingers. You might just have to compromise by leaving some strings out or fretting them sequentially.

Quote:
Originally Posted by banpreso View Post
can you guys grab the 3rd chord in L'Alchimiste? (something like 5 x 3 2 3 0)
I can, though I can't remember what it was
For this particular chord (and many others, actually), assuming you have the required flexibility, the trick is positioning/rotating your arm/wrist until the fingerings become viable. I'll see if I can take a picture for you when I get back from work.

As to your question about stretches, assuming you have small hands like I do, some fingerings can be achieved by

(a) using the thumb from "over" the fretboard, e.g. 4x6767
(b) barring across two frets, e.g. 4x7675 (drop D)
(c) fretting (as opposed to barring) two strings with one finger, e.g. 244220
(d) playing in the classical position (this makes a huge difference for me)

(the above are bass->treble, as per standard chord notation)
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Last edited by mmmaak; 06-24-2009 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:23 AM
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Some people just naturally have bigger hands and a greater hand stretch than you. With practice you can increase your reach only so much without starting to damage your hand. It's not worth it.

Look for work arounds. In measure thirty nine this particular passage could be done effectively and still sound good via half barre on the 2nd fret and pull off from 4 to 2 on the fourth string:

-------0------------------
----------4---------------
-------------2------------
----------------4---2-----
--------------------------
------------------------0-
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:39 AM
Will Kirk Will Kirk is offline
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I practice for stretches and teach my students to do the following. using only the pinky and index finger

E--4-------------
A----7-----------
D------4---------
G--------7-------
B----------4-----
E------------7---

The biggest thing with long reaches is that good hand position helps tremendously. If you're thumb is above the neck you'll have a much harder time with long reaches as opposed to if you have your thumb in a good position behind the neck, almost in the exact center
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:56 AM
Bryan T Bryan T is offline
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I just realized that you notated the chord backwards from convention. I glossed over where you wrote "treble to bass."

Quote:
let's say... this chord, capo 2nd fret: 0 4 2 4 7 0 (treble to bass)
My suggested fretting wouldn't work for that.

That second fret note would work as an open string and you could move the fourth fret on the second string to the sixth fret of the third.

In your notation, it would me like this: 006470

Conventionally: 074600

Bryan
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:12 AM
mmmaak mmmaak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan T View Post
I just realized that you notated the chord backwards from convention. I glossed over where you wrote "treble to bass."
ahhhh, me too. Previous post edited.
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:39 AM
banpreso banpreso is offline
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lol guys, sorry for having the chords backward. thanks for all the additional input

hey mak, when you grab that chord, 5 x 3 2 3 0, do you have really short nails on your ring finger? the more i rotate my wrist to get the pinky fretted, the more the ring finger gets rotated out of position, to a point i can fret it cleanly. you know what i'm talking about? the chord is completely fine without fretting the ring finger, it's that finger that gives me the most trouble
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