Rode NT5 pair vs Crown CM700 pair for recording acoustic?

[Tayloway]

I have an opportunity to buy a pair of either one of these. The I've tried the Rode NT5s and liked them but I haven't tried the CM700 mics.

Both of them are used. One from craigslist the other from The Gear Page.

The NT5s comes as a matched pair for between $270-290. New these mics sell for

The CM700 mics aren't a matched pair. According to the seller they did not make them in matched pairs ten years ago when the person selling them originally purchased them. He said that the QC at Crown was good enough at the time where they didn't need to make them. I have no idea if this is true or not. He wants between $210-230 for both mics.

The thing about the NT5s is that I'm only getting a bit over $100 of the full retail price for a used set of mics. The CM700s seem like a better deal because he wants less nearly $100 less than what each mic costs A PIECE brand new.

I'm not familiar with the CM700 and I don't know how important it is to have a matched pair for acoustic recording. Any insight into these two mics would be greatly appreciated. What should I do?

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Tayloway

I have an opportunity to buy a pair of either one of these. The I've tried the Rode NT5s and liked them but I haven't tried the CM700 mics.

Both of them are used. One from craigslist the other from The Gear Page.

The NT5s comes as a matched pair for between $270-290. New these mics sell for

The CM700 mics aren't a matched pair. According to the seller they did not make them in matched pairs ten years ago when the person selling them originally purchased them. He said that the QC at Crown was good enough at the time where they didn't need to make them. I have no idea if this is true or not. He wants between $210-230 for both mics.

The thing about the NT5s is that I'm only getting a bit over $100 of the full retail price for a used set of mics. The CM700s seem like a better deal because he wants less nearly $100 less than what each mic costs A PIECE brand new.

I'm not familiar with the CM700 and I don't know how important it is to have a matched pair for acoustic recording. Any insight into these two mics would be greatly appreciated. What should I do?

Buy a pair of new Rode NT5 mics and don't look back!

Regards,

SpruceTop

[Tayloway]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Buy a pair of new Rode NT5 mics and don't look back!

Regards,

SpruceTop

Any reason I should go for a new pair instead of a used pair?

[sdelsolray]

I've used the NT5 but not the Crown. Specs on the two mics reveal:

1) The Crown is a back electret condenser and the Rode is a true capacitor design. Bank electret mics are fine but because the capsule is permanently charged they eventually wear out.

2) The Crown will be nosier than the Rode. It's self noise is higher and it has a higher signal to noise ratio.

3) The Crown will require more preamp gain than the Rode which may add more noise to your recording depending on the quality of your microphone preamp you'll be using.

4) The Crown has two medium-narrow high frequency bumps of about 2.5 dB at 8k Hz and 10k Hz. The Rode has a very wide high frequency lift of about 2 dB between about 6k Hz and 11k Hz. All other things being equal (which they probably aren't), the Rode will sound brighter, but not by much.

5) The Crown has a three position bass switch allowing you to rolloff none, some or more bass. The Rode has a permanent minor bass rolloff of 2 dB starting at 200 Hz. The Crown would be more versatile for avoiding the proximity effect when using certain mic placements.

Hope that helps!

[Tayloway]

You said you used the Rode mics. How did you like them?

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Tayloway

Any reason I should go for a new pair instead of a used pair?

The $100 difference! And you get some kind of warranty from Rode and don't have to worry that they've been dropped, folded, spindled or mutilated. Today, $100 is nothing! Go new!

Regards,

SpruceTop

[Tayloway]

True regarding the warranty. Actually the difference would be closer to $160.

The difference between the Crowns used and new price is well over $300. Those cost $300 a piece brand new on musicians friend and he wants less than $300 for two of them. I don't know if they're any good though... or if the Rodes are leagues better.

You have a pair of NT5 mics? How do you like 'em?

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Tayloway

You said you used the Rode mics. How did you like them?

They're good mics for the price, as are many mics. They work well with acoustic guitar. You will probably need to use a high pass filter plugin when mixing tracks.

[DupleMeter]

The Crowns are better mics that the Rodes. The CM700s are nice mics.

The fact that they spec out nosier doesn't mean anything (Specs are a general guideline at best). Take a look at the DPA 4011, which is a phenomenal mic. From the specs it seems noisy and is also an electret condenser. Still, the DPAs are some of the best in the world.

The only electrets that you need to concern yourself with as to the backplate pre-polarization wearing down are the ubercheap import stuff. Heck I have an old Tascam electret that still works after 24 years. And it doesn't sound half bad if you have a decent preamp.

The Crowns are much more natural sounding when compared to the Rodes. The Rodes have a much more hyped top end. That said - many like the hyped top end sound that the Rodes have.

I've used both mics. I gave the NT5s away to a local church.

Just another point of view.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

The fact that they spec out nosier doesn't mean anything (Specs are a general guideline at best). Take a look at the DPA 4011, which is a phenomenal mic. From the specs it seems noisy and is also an electret condenser. Still, the DPAs are some of the best in the world.

I disagree. The self noise spec of a mic is rather important, at least when recording quiet sources such as solo fingerstyle guitar. I have noticed that the self noise can sound different for two mics with the same A-weighted self noise spec, and that has more to do with what frequencies are present in the noise. For example, the Peluso CEMC6 and Microtech Gefell M295 have the about the same A-weighted spec - 14 and 13 dB, respectively. Yet the CEMC6 self noise is more noticeable/objectionable to my ear than the Gefell - more higher frequencies are in the self noise of the CEMC6 than the Gefell. The Gefell self noise is not objectionable as it seems to be spread out more evenly among frequencies.

In my experience, just about any mic north of 16 dB A-weighted self noise is too noisy for quiet recording, and I've yet to find a mic north of 20 dB that I could use, regardless of how nice the mic is otherwise. Or put another way, mics with A-weighted self noise at or below 15 dB are not objectionable in terms of self noise, for my uses.

I've always wanted a pair of DPA standard mics, but each time I try them the self noise turns me off. Same for Earthworks, Neumann KM 84 and Josephson C42. Too noisy (for my uses).

Of course there are other factors involved with mic noise - the S/N ratio and sensitivity for example. Also, none of this matters much if you are recording louder sources.

[alohachris]

Aloha,

I agree with Sdelsolray, self-noise is a very important factor for recording, and especially, ear fatigue. (Great examples, Sdel. For example, I too initially loved how the CEMC6's sounded, but recently sold them because of the self-noise issues you identified make 'em useless for recording. And those Josephson 42's may have been the brightest mics I've ever heard - yuck).

I also agree with Duplemeter in that the Rode NT-5 is a VERY bright mic.

I rented a pair of those from the Mainland a few years back and put them through their paces for a couple of days on my great live rig. I found the Rode NT-5's to be far too bright AND noisy for my purposes (and you're right about the need for a hi-pass filter on that one, Sdel). Some people like that brightness to cut through in live venues, but not me.

Check out GPM's Teja Gerken's site:

http://www.reverbnation.com/tejagerken

Many of his samples were recorded on a pair of NT5's, which he has said he uses on his recordings.

I recommend that you let your ears decide and try out both the Rode's & Crown's first before you buy. But I also don't like either of those mics for live or recording applications. A pair of Michael Jolly-modded, Russian-made Oktava MC012 budget S/D mics would be much preferrable to Rode NT5's, IMO. And many other mics for under $1K as well.

I'll also recommend one you may not have heard much about, the ADK A6 S/D condensor mic. Very affordable. Great sounding. Not too noisy or bright. Can find 'em for under $200. Hard to beat. To hear 'em, go to Dream Guitars. Most of Al Petteway's samples were recorded with a pair of A6's w/o EQ!

Check out this sample:

http://www.dreamguitars.com/preowned...on_0203134.mov


A Hui Hou!

alohachris

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha,

I agree with Sdelsolray, self-noise is a very important factor for recording, and especially, ear fatigue. (Great examples, Sdel. For example, I too initially loved how the CEMC6's sounded, but recently sold them because of the self-noise issues you identified make 'em useless for recording. And those Josephson 42's may have been the brightest mics I've ever heard - yuck).

I also agree with Duplemeter in that the Rode NT-5 is a VERY bright mic.

I rented a pair of those from the Mainland a few years back and put them through their paces for a couple of days on my great live rig. I found the Rode NT-5's to be far too bright AND noisy for my purposes (and you're right about the need for a hi-pass filter on that one, Sdel). Some people like that brightness to cut through in live venues, but not me.

Check out GPM's Teja Gerken's site:

http://www.reverbnation.com/tejagerken

Many of his samples were recorded on a pair of NT5's, which he has said he uses on his recordings.

I recommend that you let your ears decide and try out both the Rode's & Crown's first before you buy. But I also don't like either of those mics for live or recording applications. A pair of Michael Jolly-modded, Russian-made Oktava MC012 budget S/D mics would be much preferrable to Rode NT5's, IMO. And many other mics for under $1K as well.

I'll also recommend one you may not have heard much about, the ADK A6 S/D condensor mic. Very affordable. Great sounding. Not too noisy or bright. Can find 'em for under $200. Hard to beat. To hear 'em, go to Dream Guitars. Most of Al Petteway's samples were recorded with a pair of A6's w/o EQ!

Check out this sample:

http://www.dreamguitars.com/preowned...on_0203134.mov


A Hui Hou!

alohachris

Chris,

I agree about the CEMC6, although the noise is just at the edge of too much, at least when I've tried them. The C42 is a great mic for many things, but quiet sources is not one of them. I wanted to like that mic so much because it has so many positive attributes. But the self noise (even after eq'ing out the HF lift post-recording) was over the edge. Same with the Standard DPA mics (e.g., 4006, 4011), Earthworks and Naiant (those very inexpensive mini diaphragm Earthworks quasi-clones).

I agree with you about the ADK A6. I've owned or used just about every ADK mic ever made and the A6 is the cats meow. I remain shocked (and quite pleased) at how nice that mic works with my gear and playing.

But the OP's budget is about $230, for a pair of mics. He could pick off a pair of used A6's on eBay with patience, or a pair of Oktava MC-012 ( but watch out for the Guitar Center Chinese copies). Again, I've never tried the Crown CM700, and DupleMeter's comments about the mic are to be respected. Still, the A-weighted self noise of 21 dB is troubling, as is the S/N ratio, as is the sensitivity (it will take more preamp gain to get that mic to the same level as the Rode).

The NT5 is not a bad mic. The wide HF rise and the very LF can be adjusted post-recording with a basic eq plugin. For $230 they seem like a good deal (I think the street price is $400 or so).

[rick-slo]

To us recording relatively quiet sources mike noise is more bothersome than it would be to the average listener. Is is rather annoying when everything else in the recording chain is quite except the mikes.

I recording the following about a year and a half ago on a pair of Mercenary Audio KM-69 mikes.

http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Music/KissKM69.mp3

Even though I liked the mike's warmth and body the mike's self noise bothered me too much to keep them.

[alohachris]

Aloha Rick-Slo,

Beautiful music all the way around. Nice feeling and pace on the song.

Thank you for that to cap this cool Honolulu Saturday night! I'll have sweet dreams on that one, brah.

Mahalo a Nui!

alohachris

[Tayloway]

Hyper brightness IS a problem. I'd like an accurate leaning towards warm sound. The reason I bought a cedar top guitar is because I hate harshness. Not much point if the mics are going to make the guitar record brightly anyway!