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Old 04-27-2017, 10:35 PM
Zandit75 Zandit75 is offline
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Default Semi-Scratch Build - My take on the Yamaha Silent Guitar

Hi all!
Some of you may have seen me sneaking around the forum, mostly drooling over all the beautiful guitars in this section.
I'm still planning on building an Acoustic guitar through the Thomas Lloyd school of Acoustic Guitar Building(http://thomaslloydguitarstlg.com.au/about.html), but things have worked against me for the last couple of years to make it happen. Looks like next year will be the year!
In the mean time, I've acquired a taste for building Electric Guitar Kits.....Ok, I've only done one, and I had a build diary here - http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=429958
The other electric guitar I have played with was a damaged cheapo that I stripped, re-wired and re-built with a new paint job.

The reason for this thread is to humbly ask the very kind master builders here for some tips on my latest project.
A little back story here, I've always had a soft spot for the Yamaha Silent Guitars, and one day there will be one in my collection. Today is not that day, so I thought I might have a crack at building one myself. Sure, it's not going to have all the features of the genuine article, but this is more of a proof of concept to see if what is in my head is a workable solution. It's also going to work out to be much cheaper, as these guitars are around $1000AUD to get locally.

For those who may not be familiar with the guitar, here it is..


It's basically the thickness of an electric guitar, and when played acoustically, has no greater volume than an unplugged electric guitar. Plug it into an acoustic amp, or even plug in some headphones, and you get a surprisingly good acoustic tone through the piezo pickup and Yamaha's own SRT powered pickup system.

In my version, I'm cheating a little due to my lack of experience. I've purchased an electric guitar neck from ebay that is already bound, and fretted. For this concept, I have laminated several blocks of pine to make the main body from, and I'll be using a Fishman acoustic piezo/mic pickup to creat the sound.
Here is a photo of some of the pieces I plan on using.


So far, things are progressing nicely, however I have a question regarding the placement of the bridge.
Here is a mock build shot.


The neck pocket will be routed out so the fret board will just be sitting proud of the body, and the plan is to not have a break angle.
I'm not looking to use a standard timber bridge, but a metal insert that holds the (plastic at this stage) bridge in place. This is shown in the above photo.
I plan on inlaying the metal insert into the body, which will also have a couple of screws that can adjust the height of the bridge.
I understand the basics of scale length, but I also know that this can vary depending on the strings.
From what I have seen of the builds here, the bridge does not run perpendicular to the strings, and leans back slightly from the top bass strings when viewed from a playing position.
With electric guitars this is fairly easy to address with adjustable saddles at the bridge, but acoustics don't "normally" have this kind if adjustability.

Are there any tips that can be shared, or sources that I can look to that will help me out with this? I'm not looking for trade secrets, I understand you guys have your own way of doing things from each other, but any assistance, no matter how small would be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 04-28-2017, 02:34 AM
Ozzy the dog Ozzy the dog is online now
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You asked for tips from master builders so that rules me out but while they are busy doing their thing I'll offer three tips: -
  1. before you drill anything for the bridge check scale length and measure the distance correctly
  2. before you drill anything for the bridge check scale length and measure the distance correctly
  3. before you drill anything for the bridge check scale length and measure the distance correctly

As you say, with electrics you have some degree of adjustment and as this is the most important measurement on the guitar - make sure you get it right.

But most of all, have fun doing it.
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Old 04-28-2017, 06:53 AM
Zandit75 Zandit75 is offline
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Thanks Ozzy. I'm sure you meant to have more tips than that, as I plan on doing exactly that about 50 times before even marking the timber with a pencil!!!����
I've got my scale length of 624mm, and I've punched that into the Stewmac fret calculator. The actual bridge location is about 4-7mm further along than that. Seems a little far back?
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Old 04-28-2017, 07:13 AM
redir redir is offline
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Cool project.

Just to clarify some nomenclature, it's not the bridge that is angled such that the bass strings are longer then the treble strings but rather the saddle.
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Old 04-30-2017, 03:22 AM
Zandit75 Zandit75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redir View Post
Cool project.

Just to clarify some nomenclature, it's not the bridge that is angled such that the bass strings are longer then the treble strings but rather the saddle.
Well put redir! Thanks for the clarification!
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1995 Maton EM725C - Solid 'A' Spruce Top, QLD Walnut B&S, AP5 Pickup
2018 Custom Built OM - Silver Quandong Top, Aussie Blackwood B&S, Fishman Matrix Infinity Mic Blend Pickup
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2022 Yamaha SLG200S Silent Guitar
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Old 04-30-2017, 05:47 PM
printer2 printer2 is offline
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Nylon string folk.

http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.co...ic.php?t=53197

Now just thinking your project through and what I would do, thinking outside of the box, you have no box. So you could make up the bridge and put it in the theoretical position 2X the nut to 12th fret position and use a clamp or two to hold it in place. Then you could check the notes fretted and compare them to their harmonics. Then try adding a little bit of length, say 2 mm. Then check the intonation again. Bet you could find the best position for your arrangement in no time.
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Old 04-30-2017, 07:31 PM
Zandit75 Zandit75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
Nylon string folk.

http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.co...ic.php?t=53197

Now just thinking your project through and what I would do, thinking outside of the box, you have no box. So you could make up the bridge and put it in the theoretical position 2X the nut to 12th fret position and use a clamp or two to hold it in place. Then you could check the notes fretted and compare them to their harmonics. Then try adding a little bit of length, say 2 mm. Then check the intonation again. Bet you could find the best position for your arrangement in no time.
Great idea Fred, thanks for this, most appreciated.
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2018 Custom Built OM - Silver Quandong Top, Aussie Blackwood B&S, Fishman Matrix Infinity Mic Blend Pickup
2021 Faith Neptune Baritone - Solid Englemann Spruce Top, Solid Indonesian Rosewood B&S, Fishman INK3 Pickup
2022 Yamaha SLG200S Silent Guitar
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Old 04-30-2017, 07:40 PM
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This is a very cool project and one I seriously considered attempting.

I want to employ the Traveler Guitar headless internal tuner design if I do it.

I will be watching this thread with great interest.
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Old 04-30-2017, 08:26 PM
Zandit75 Zandit75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fazool View Post
This is a very cool project and one I seriously considered attempting.

I want to employ the Traveler Guitar headless internal tuner design if I do it.

I will be watching this thread with great interest.
Thanks Fazool, most appreciated. I'll update this thread later tonight when I finish work. I have progressed some, and I might give the Luthiers here a heart attack when they see my methods!
I have a serious lack of tools for this kind of work, so I may even get some hate mail!!!
I'm really hoping the sound I get out of this is good enough for this to be a gigging guitar.
As mentioned, it is more of a proof of concept, so this build will be very fluid and change as required to find what works.
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1995 Maton EM725C - Solid 'A' Spruce Top, QLD Walnut B&S, AP5 Pickup
2018 Custom Built OM - Silver Quandong Top, Aussie Blackwood B&S, Fishman Matrix Infinity Mic Blend Pickup
2021 Faith Neptune Baritone - Solid Englemann Spruce Top, Solid Indonesian Rosewood B&S, Fishman INK3 Pickup
2022 Yamaha SLG200S Silent Guitar
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Old 05-01-2017, 02:29 PM
Zandit75 Zandit75 is offline
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Ok, time to bring this thread up to speed!!
To begin with, I admit, I have a serious lack of proper tools with which to build a guitar, however with the right patience and ingenuity, it's amazing what can be achieved!

***Warning!!! Some Luthiers may decide to swear at me for my methods!!!***
I apologise in advance for this!!

So, with all that out of the way, here's my main cheat for this build, a pre-finished Les Paul style Electric guitar neck. I picked this design mainly because it had an oversized headstock paddle, and also no fret markers, so I can play with my own inlay design later down the track.
Initially I thought I had bought a pine neck due to the paleness of the colour, but I now believe it is Basswood. It's very dense.


Side markers are nice and straight, these will be changed out later down the track.


Nice and wide headstock, so I can do pretty much anything I want with this




Nasty looking plastic nut which fell off with the lightest of finger pressure! This will be replaced with a Graph Tech Nut.


My plan is to do a string through design for this build, so I played around with basic layout on some cardboard. The neck will be a bolt-on design.


I started playing around with headstock designs. I had in mind to do an open style headstock using TheEdwinson's Omega design, and Cassimi's design as inspiration.




I settled on an initial design, but something wasn't quite right about it.


I realised I was trying to fill up the entire paddle, and the headstock design was just too long. So, I took my last design, and modified the dimensions to get my final design.


My headstock needed fattening, so I visited a local veneer supplier, and was looking at their thickest veneers. It just happened to be some Black Heart Sassafras at around 2mm thick.


The veneers needed flattening, so I soaked them in water for about 15mins, then used some 1" thick metal plates at work, and left them overnight.
Quite happy with how they came out


Now, I've warned you already, but this is where things start getting ugly!!
I laminated veneers top and bottom on the headstock.




I also borrowed the workshops 100 tonne press to start gluing the main body together!
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1995 Maton EM725C - Solid 'A' Spruce Top, QLD Walnut B&S, AP5 Pickup
2018 Custom Built OM - Silver Quandong Top, Aussie Blackwood B&S, Fishman Matrix Infinity Mic Blend Pickup
2021 Faith Neptune Baritone - Solid Englemann Spruce Top, Solid Indonesian Rosewood B&S, Fishman INK3 Pickup
2022 Yamaha SLG200S Silent Guitar
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Old 05-01-2017, 02:30 PM
Zandit75 Zandit75 is offline
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The headstock came out looking a little messy






Time to start some shaping, and cleaning up. Notice the lack of of a decent wood working vice!




Using a coping saw, file and my dremel, things started looking neater.








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2018 Custom Built OM - Silver Quandong Top, Aussie Blackwood B&S, Fishman Matrix Infinity Mic Blend Pickup
2021 Faith Neptune Baritone - Solid Englemann Spruce Top, Solid Indonesian Rosewood B&S, Fishman INK3 Pickup
2022 Yamaha SLG200S Silent Guitar
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Old 05-01-2017, 06:22 PM
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I admire your ingenuity and intrepid can-do attitude with this project. A couple things I'd like to mention...
When you do an open headstock design like this, one thing you will want to avoid is having the strings dragging on the lower part of the headstock, just past the nut. You'll need to carve in some relief in there, or a rather steep chamfer, to give the strings enough clearance from the nut to the tuner posts. If the strings are touching that lower part of the headstock between the nut and the tuner posts, you may experience some tubby sound from those strings.
Ideally, your only contact points for the strings should be: 1. The anchor point on the bridge; 2. Crossing over the saddle; 3. The nut; 4. The tuner posts.
If the strings are dragging or touching anywhere else, you may get anomalous buzzes, tubby sound, or even difficulty with accurate tuning.

The other thing is, to calculate accurate bridge/saddle placement, you can go to StewMac's excellent online fret scale calculator, HERE. You can input any scale length, in inches or metric; and it will also give you the correct measurements for saddle placement too, with "standard" intonation.

I recently used this great StewMac reference to make an entire new set of scale length templates, and it was EASY. One thing, though- you will need an accurate ruler or machinist scale at least 30" long. You can buy super accurate Shinwa brand metric and SAE rulers on Amazon.com.
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Old 05-01-2017, 06:31 PM
Zandit75 Zandit75 is offline
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Thank you very much Edwinson, most informative!
I have some more photos that I will share later today that show my trial efforts, and I will be taking into account a champher/ramp up to the nut to allow string clearance, but thank you for pointing it out.
I've looked at the Stewmac fret calculator and I'll be using it to work out the saddle placement.
As mentioned above, I'll be measuring 50 times before marking!
Appreciate your support!
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1995 Maton EM725C - Solid 'A' Spruce Top, QLD Walnut B&S, AP5 Pickup
2018 Custom Built OM - Silver Quandong Top, Aussie Blackwood B&S, Fishman Matrix Infinity Mic Blend Pickup
2021 Faith Neptune Baritone - Solid Englemann Spruce Top, Solid Indonesian Rosewood B&S, Fishman INK3 Pickup
2022 Yamaha SLG200S Silent Guitar
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Old 05-02-2017, 03:22 AM
Zandit75 Zandit75 is offline
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Here is the remaining photos I have for this build so far.
After playing with the head stock design, I thought it prudent to do a trial run and see what I have and don't have, to get this design working.
While the trial headstock is not perfect, I did spend a lot of time trying to get the edges as smooth as possible so I could see the limits of my tools, and skills.

I started by using some scrap pine that is 18mm thick. Not as thick as my actual headstock, but good enough for this trial. I used my electric jigsaw initially to get the rough shape, then used my file to get to the line.


Marked out my center lines along the edges and using my original design template, worked out where the string posts would end up.


Before drilling out the center section, I realised I could minimise any risk of tearout by drilling the tuner holes first


Not that it really mattered, but for some reason I wanted to check I had drilled far enough! For the record, I have access to a drill press at work, however while at home playing with this trial headstock, I just used my hand held drill


Time to start getting dangerous!


Got one side cleaned up pretty close, and inserted the tuners again.






Spent a couple more hours using my file to clean up the rest of the interior.
Fun fact....It's amazing how hot a file gets when being used on wood!!
I glued on the plastic nut that fell off earlier, and installed the remaining tuners. BTW, these tuners are really crappy Chinese items that started seizing up, so I've only used them for this trial. I have just received a new set from Jinho in South Korea that I am very happy with.
Once the nut was secure, I used some fishing line to see how the string directions went, and to ensure there was no fowling of the lines.






As TheEdwinson mentioned, I will need to carve out some of the opening towards the nut to allow clearance for the strings. In this trial model they are slightly touching the wood.

It's not perfect, but I'm extremely happy with how this has progressed. I already knew the theory was sound, but seeing it with your own eyes makes a huge difference to how you visualise the end product.
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1995 Maton EM725C - Solid 'A' Spruce Top, QLD Walnut B&S, AP5 Pickup
2018 Custom Built OM - Silver Quandong Top, Aussie Blackwood B&S, Fishman Matrix Infinity Mic Blend Pickup
2021 Faith Neptune Baritone - Solid Englemann Spruce Top, Solid Indonesian Rosewood B&S, Fishman INK3 Pickup
2022 Yamaha SLG200S Silent Guitar
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Old 05-02-2017, 03:31 AM
Zandit75 Zandit75 is offline
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It's probably a little late to warn people, but in case you hadn't noticed, I like taking pictures!!!
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2018 Custom Built OM - Silver Quandong Top, Aussie Blackwood B&S, Fishman Matrix Infinity Mic Blend Pickup
2021 Faith Neptune Baritone - Solid Englemann Spruce Top, Solid Indonesian Rosewood B&S, Fishman INK3 Pickup
2022 Yamaha SLG200S Silent Guitar
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