Removing finish from top

[Jackknifegypsy]

Does the coating on the top of guitar affect the tone?

If so would removing it and replacing it with tung oil be beneficial?

[Leftyprs]

If you don't know the answer to this question, I wouldn't recommend that you do the work yourself! The finish on an acoustic top absolutely effects the tone of the guitar! Who built the guitar, and what kind of finish do they normally use on their instruments?

[sachi]

Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy

Does the coating on the top of guitar affect the tone?

If so would removing it and replacing it with tung oil be beneficial?

My response would be that the *thickness* of the finish can affect the tone. If the finish is too thick, it can hinder the vibrations of the wood. But as Lefty said, trying to remove or thin a finish is a dangerous enterprise.

What kind of guitar do you have and what do you think the problem is with it?

[jperryrocks]

Tung oil is not a suitable protection for an acoustic guitar top.

Cheaper guitars usually have a too thick poly top which can hinder tone.

If you have a guitar that needs the finish taken off the top, it's not worth spending the money on it. It's most like a cheap import guitar that cost under $500 new.

You need to buy another guitar.

[ZekeM]

Originally Posted by jperryrocks

Tung oil is not a suitable protection for an acoustic guitar top.

Cheaper guitars usually have a too thick poly top which can hinder tone.

If you have a guitar that needs the finish taken off the top, it's not worth spending the money on it. It's most like a cheap import guitar that cost under $500 new.

You need to buy another guitar.

I agree. But you don't have to buy another guitar. There are plenty of under $500 guitars that are wonderful instruments. But I don't think it would be worth your time and effort to put on a different finish. Especially if you have never done so before. It take a lot of practice to get a good finish that is also very thin.

[jperryrocks]

You can buy a lot of guitar for $500-600 these days.

There's a good chance that many lower end guitars have laminated tops in addition to thick finishes that kill tone.

Tell us what guitar you have, and we'll let you know if your throwing you money away.

[Tim McKnight]

Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy

Does the coating on the top of guitar affect the tone?

If so would removing it and replacing it with tung oil be beneficial?

Yes, the finish [can] affect, enhance or impede the tone of any instrument.

Tung Oil would be the last finish one should consider using on a guitar top, right behind black top sealer. You should consider a finish that sets on [top] of the wood instead of a finish that [penetrates] the wood.

[Jackknifegypsy]

to all of you who have replied.

I just bought a new Alvarez Parlor AP70, for $360 and thought about the finish since I work with many hardwoods as an avocation. Have built some small furniture pieces, and suddenly thought about the coating on the face.

I can remove a top coat finish myself with little problem and would like to do it IF it would improve the tone.

Thanks for stopping me from using Tung oil. I wouldn't even mind taking off the finish and not replacing it.

I believe these are all soild woods on the Alvarez. I bought this as a home use guitar, not for traveling which I use the Washburn for.

But if the consensus is that it would do very little to improve the tone (the A and D could really use a boost) then I'll just forget about it.


Hopf Classical
Epiphone
Washburn parlor
Zager E-Z play
Wechter Parlor
Guild Classical

[Tim McKnight]

Yes, removing a thick finish could improve tone but I doubt that you know how thick that finish really is, do you? Many of the modern finishes are catalyzed (either chemically or UV) cured polyurethane or polyester finishes. Many of the production guitar finishes are quite thick ... but some are not. You have no way of measuring it until you begin the removal process. BTW the only way to remove either of these two modern finishes is by sanding it off because there are no known chemical paint strippers that will remove catalyzed poly finishes. Long story short, you may as well save yourself a lot of heartache and just enjoy the guitar for what it is.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Tim McKnight

Tung Oil would be the last finish one should consider using on a guitar top, right behind black top sealer.

That's very funny. Thanks for the laugh.

I've seen tung oil (and other penetrating finishes) used on acoustic guitar tops by do-it-yourselfers and have to agree that black top sealer would have been better. And, once a penetrating finish is applied, it's pretty much permanent.

[redir]

It's just a cheap guitar and it could be a fun project and you will certainly learn something by doing it. If you do it then just know that you may end up with is 1) and ugly guitar with better tone 2) and ugly guitar with no describable difference in tone or 3) a destroyed guitar. But if you have said skills then I doubt #3 will come into play and you may even be able to avoid the ugliness.

My guess is that on a cheap guitar like that the finish is very thick. You can usually tell if the top is solid vs ply by looking at the sound hole edge. If you see the quarter sawn annular rings go through and through then it's solid, if you see the rings stop at a center laminate then it's ply. Otherwise you can try and match up a particular grain feature on the guitar top to the underside from inside the guitar using a mirror. If it's ply then you wont see the same grain lines.

If it's a laminated top then don't bother refinishing it.

I've never used it but I have seen instruments finished with Tru-Oil and they look great and apparently it's very easy to apply.

[Hankt]

I'm repairing a 1950s Stella for own use.

From this:


to currently:


I'll finish with micro mesh and likely leave the top natural with a paste wax finish.

If you want to see a decent luthier at work, go to Youtube and watch Jerry of Rosa Stringworks.

There is also a video on Youtube of a luthier using what looks like a single edged razor blade to scrape the finish off of an Ovation and refinish it.

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by Hankt

I'm repairing a 1950s Stella for own use.

There is also a video on Youtube of a luthier using what looks like a single edged razor blade to scrape the finish off of an Ovation and refinish it.

A word of advice, make sure you know the thickness of any guitars top before doing full refinish work.

I have on many many ocassions replaced tops on instruments as an owner or previous repairer did not evaluate its current thickness before refinishing, it really is not pretty when you get it wrong

Steve

One of the tops I had to replace from someone elses mis-fortune, only 4500 dollar guitar, this is before

[Hankt]

I can't tell what message that picture is trying to convey. Has someone sanded or scraped through a level of veneer on a laminate top?

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by Hankt

I can't tell what message that picture is trying to convey. Has someone sanded or scraped through a level of veneer on a laminate top?

No laminate happening at all, it’s a solid spruce top that a customer paid someone to have refinished.

When the instrument was returned to them, the whole top as per photo is collapsing under tension, you can visually see the deformation around the border of the guitar where it has collapsed away from the kerfing

Steve