Deleting thread

[dneal]

Originally Posted by RussL30

I think it can be both. I’ve owned a Taylor 410ce koa limited that was very shrill sounding and had a lower grade koa. The only Taylor I’ve played that actually fit the negative forum stereotypes you see given to Taylor. I sold that one pretty quick.

I had negative opinion of koa until a few years later I played a Taylor DNK that was probably the best sounding Taylor I’ve ever played. It had higher quality wood. If I could’ve afforded the 3k price tag I would’ve bought it.

Both of these were the same wood species and body shape made by the same builder but worlds apart in sound.

Wood combo questions without regard to builder are meaningless. Try to answer "how does Rosewood and Spruce sound?" You could talk about two Taylors you owned or played, but that's one small sample from one builder who constructs their guitars to dimension and not materials. The next poster comes along and comments about how their 6-figure highly in demand luthier built guitar has different characteristics (as if that experience can be generalized to all Rosewood and Spruce guitars). You can even get more specific, with "how does EIR and Sitka sound?", and you have the same problem.

[Tnfiddler]

I know they're layered laminate back and sides, but I bought a Taylor 210ce DLX-Koa and while it looked great, it was lacking in sound and was moved on rather quickly.

[joeld]

As generalizations about wood and tone go, I think SKYHIGH's comments are pretty good. 'Weak bass' may be a bit stern, but it's fair to expect a Spruce/Koa guitar to have a bit more chime and a bit less bass and a bit more bark than a rosewood equivalent with a Cedar top. Of course wood variations, builder, humidity, strings, pick thickness, something about auditory memory... I've had the pleasure of trying Koa guitars from SCGC, Goodall, Larrivee, Webber, Taylor. IMHO.

By the way, that generalization is not a criticism. It's why I chose my Koa/Sitka Webber OM. It's crisp and direct, and I have another guitar with a big fat creamy tone.

[J Patrick]

....if tonewood generalizations are meaningless without taking into account the builder.....than it might be surmised that a builder could get the exact same tone out of the same model using any combination of wood species....I would be surprised if that was really possible...I guess a gifted builder might be able to tweak the design to achieve similar results but why would they?....


...I expect what can be determinedi is how one builders koa/spruce guitar compares to another builders example...definitely worth knowing...more than the wood combo really...but it doesn’t count out the attributes of the materials used and their influence on the end result..


....it’s fun to compare experiences and observations...most of the time a consensus view is kinda realized.....rarely does everybody agree....not too many people care that much....it’s just people sharing...a good thing I think...

[Cool555]

Originally Posted by Earl49

I have to agree with Tnfiddler. My Taylor GS-K with flamed koa / spruce top is the nicest wood guitar that I have. All others have to compare to it, or they won't come home with me. Mine is from 2006, the first year they made the GS size. It wears Elixir PB strings in medium gauge these days. My all-koa 424-LTD from 2007 is my #2 wood guitar. It yields nothing to the other Taylor GA's that I own, and has the beauty of koa too.



Koa can be a little "tight" sounding or anemic in the bass at first, but it will develop extra character over time. Search Google for the Taylor tone chart and you'll see how they depict it. Koa has a flat EQ - no mid range scoop or boost.

Hi Earl49. Just wanted you to know you have followers in AGF and I’m one of them. Reason being that you used the phrase “patience grasshopper” in the very first thread I posted here on Koa guitars (only about a month ago). I found it humorous and nostalgic as it reminded me of the movie “Kung Fu” (David Carradin?) that I watched as a kid.

I read somewhere in the CF section that your wood guitars are going out. I also remember reading somewhere else that you have “a soft spot” for Koa guitars. Don’t mean to be a busybody but just curious to know what’s happening? You selling off all your precious Koa guitars? Aren’t you gonna regret once they’re gone? Looking after 2-3 wood guitars shouldn’t be that difficult. Keep your followers updated ok...

Oh. I love Koa guitars too! That’s why I’m asking...

[justonwo]

I have found that generalizations about tone woods generally tend to be true. Most builders that I've worked with - actually all of them - wouldn't veer too far off the conventional wisdom for the major tone woods. There are always outliers, of course. To say that it's all in the hands of the builders, it's too extreme in the other direction. My rosewood guitars generally follow the rosewood conventional wisdom. Same for mahogany.

I owned one spruce/koa guitar for a while which I really loved. It was a spruce/koa 000-12 that was a replica of a vintage Larson (more or less). I found it to mostly sound like mahogany, which a relatively dry tone that emphasizes the midrange. Perhaps a little less dry that mahogany, but it's been a few years.

I've heard koa can be quite variable from more than a few builders, so I think one needs to be careful, but the few I've played have all been wonderful combinations. It's a great combo for a vintage-oriented guitar, in my option - one that emphasizes the fundamental. I've heard many people describe it as a cross between mahogany and maple, though I personally have too few data points to imagine what that would sound like.

[colins]

It is vital to consider the builder, who is very important to the sound of any guitar, but that can be factored into the OP’s question.

For example of the Martins I have owned in EIR, mahogany and koa with similar bodies and spruce tops, the koa followed the characteristics mentioned by others in this thread. I would agree that while it has less bass than rosewood it can still give a well-rounded sound.

I feel koa sits in the mahogany/walnut area relative to the rosewood area and my walnut comments I based on having two guitars of the same size by the same builder and both with Italian spruce tops. One is walnut B&S and one is rosewood B&S. I will even lash out and say Tassie blackwood sits in the koa area too, although I only have one guitar in that wood.

[tadol]

Koa is frequently chosen for its appearance rather than its tone, and the more color and figure the better it is considered to be - generalizations based on species may have a element of truth in general, but a small builder can choose sets that will exhibit more of what the player wants - which may or may not meet the generalizations. Plus, many builders can build something that will sound very much like what they usually build, regardless of species.

I have a couple koa/spruce guitars, and I love the combo - and they have all the bass I want -

[Slothead56]

Originally Posted by tadol

Koa is frequently chosen for its appearance rather than its tone, and the more color and figure the better it is considered to be - generalizations based on species may have a element of truth in general, but a small builder can choose sets that will exhibit more of what the player wants - which may or may not meet the generalizations. Plus, many builders can build something that will sound very much like what they usually build, regardless of species.

I have a couple koa/spruce guitars, and I love the combo - and they have all the bass I want -

I bought my Koa OM 42 for its looks, but I’m keeping it for its sound. For me (S/S type) it has the perfect balance of sound for certain songs.

[Tnfiddler]

Just finished playing my 08 Fall Ltd. Koa GS for an hour and I have to say that's it perfectly balanced across the lows, mids and highs to me. So, I think I have the best of both worlds. One of the best looking guitars I've ever seen and sounds amazing at the same time! I'd highly recommend Koa and spruce as a wood combination.

[Jeff Mc]

In my recent 00 search, the dealer had a Taylor K24ce V-class, that was pretty reasonably priced. It really sounded great and if I remember it was billed as prototype V from last year. The innards looked like it as the inside was pretty sloppy, but I guess if it was a prototype, they wouldn't spend time cleaning up glue and such. I may well have bought it if it fitted my size need cause it really did sound great.

I do already have a koa guitar that is about 10 years old now and probably is the best, most balanced guitar that I own. I think top is German spruce. Will probably have to pry it from my cold dead hands.