How does a CF guitar "sound" like?

[jdazey]

Originally Posted by mot

You have three obvious choices regarding what to do about this problem.

1) Just keep playing the guitars you have until they rot.
2) Get a low end wood guitar that plays well (that's what I did for the 20 or so years I spent on or around too many ships) and the guitar still plays well.
3) Drop a grand or so on a decent CF guitar or travel size guitar. I went with the X20 in 2013 because I wanted a tough guitar that my kid couldn't destroy. It's now my number one go to guitar. I have been offered more than I paid when I bought it too.

You can make a fuss about how CF sucks, but until you are willing to take a test drive (again) you will be wondering what you are missing. The nice thing is if you think the guitar totally sucks, there are many other curious people who will lighten your load while still giving you most of your investment back. The most likely outcome is you will end up with more than one that you just can't let go

.

The last time I played Rainsongs was about three months ago and the CA six months. I doubt much has changed since then. Lots of people like them. I'm OK with that, and I'm certainly open to trying some of the other brands. OTOH my wood guitars are no slouches, and should they actually rot out, there are lots of great sounding replacement candidates.

Cheers,
Joe

[Captain Jim]

Originally Posted by The Kid!

They sound like Taylor’s? They few CF guitars that I played sounded very articulate and thin like a Taylor. They lacked depth to my ears. Didn’t sound bad, but don’t sound like what I want to hear. I realize that other makers may sound different. I tried two different tainsong models.

Do any offerings sound like a Gibson J45?

Maybe the same pickup as my J45 with a J45 wave map on my Tonedexter might work.

Nope. Not what I said. I have several Taylors and prefer the sound of those guitars over similar model Martins. I did say that I find the tone of my X20 as pleasing as my 814ce. I didn't say they were the same. For the record, I don't find "the Taylor sound" (with all the different models they offer, that is a wide spectrum) thin. I have an 814 that sounds great. A 522ce 12-fret that sounds like an all mahogany guitar (because it is).

I've come across folks who think a Martin dread is "the only acceptable" guitar tone. If that works for them, I'm OK with that. The guitars I have bring a variety of tone, but if I didn't appreciate what each offers, it wouldn't make much sense to buy... duh.

If push came to shove and I had to narrow it down to just one guitar, it would definitely be one of my Emeralds. Great sound, humidity carefree, great playing, and extremely comfortable. I've not been one to tell people what they should play or buy, nor look down my nose at a guitar I don't personally care for. Life is short - you should play what works for you. If someone doesn't care for "the carbon fiber tone," (as if there is one tone that describes all CF options) I don't understand why they would come to this sub-forum. I also don't get the "my Taylor can beat up your Martin" threads either.

I don't give a furry rat's rear what someone else chooses, but I have been playing long enough (over 50 years) to know what I like. People come here to find out about CF, and many of us have stayed because we appreciate not just the guitars or the manufacturers, but also the comradery. To come in and proclaim an entire genre of guitars "thin" or "sterile" simply shows ignorance, bad taste, or an intent to troll.

I'm not familiar with "tainsong," but it sounds like a cheap knock-off of a RainSong.

If you want something that sounds like a J45, I'd suggest checking out a Gibson. I was a "Gibson guy" back in the late 60s and 70s (electric and acoustic; still have a 335)... been a long time since I was "a kid," but as I matured, I opened my mind and ears to more than one tone.

Good luck with your search.

Come on Captain, tell us what you really think. By the way, the Taintsong is one of those instruments that is neither here nor there.

[kramster]

Originally Posted by EvanB

Come on Captain, tell us what you really think. By the way, the Taintsong is one of those instruments that is neither here nor there.

Taint never heard of it... I really like my CH OM....so I got that going for me .

[mot]

Originally Posted by jdazey

The last time I played Rainsongs was about three months ago and the CA six months. I doubt much has changed since then. Lots of people like them. I'm OK with that, and I'm certainly open to trying some of the other brands. OTOH my wood guitars are no slouches, and should they actually rot out, there are lots of great sounding replacement candidates.

Cheers,
Joe

I am in agreement. Some Rainsongs sound chime-y. It's your money and ears, so do what you want with them. There are a lot of great sounding candidates out there, but the difference is that the X20 is probably tougher than all the wood guitars you can try and still sounds just good (probably different, but still as good) as some of the top high end ones any of us are likely to afford that are twice or three times the price of the X20.

[AZLiberty]

Originally Posted by mercy

It sounds like a guitar but the sound is cold and sterile. It lacks that something wood has.

Three Guitars. Two Larrivee OMs (one Rosewood, one Mahogany) and my Rainsong Shorty.

https://soundcloud.com/rocket_song/3...-sound-samples

[steelvibe]

The 3rd guitar is the Shorty? Sounds gr8 2 me!

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

To come in and proclaim an entire genre of guitars "thin" or "sterile" simply shows ignorance, bad taste, or an intent to troll.

This, and it could even be all 3 simultaneously? We've seen it before and we will see it again.

[AZLiberty]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

The 3rd guitar is the Shorty? Sounds gr8 2 me!

#1 Larrivee OM-03
#2 Rainsong "Shorty"
#3 Larrivee OM-03R

I think my OM-03R (Rosewood) sounds better than my Rainsong, but the Rainsong sounds better than the OM-03 (Mahogany)

YMMV.

[Gordon Currie]

I played a couple of Rainsong guitars last weekend, because I had only played one CF guitar ever (and it was during a music conference so it was kind of crazy).

I LOVED the feel, light yet super solid. Tight in the best way. Light!!!
I LOVED the easy playability all over the fretboard.

I was puzzled by the tone, though. It had a very nice sound profile, nicely balanced and good consistent sustain, yet... it wasn't as dynamic as I was expecting and there was something subtle missing - air maybe? It was also relatively quiet (compared to the guitars I am used to).

I'll have to play more guitars and more makers, because I want a CF guitar that can equal my current 'touring' guitar (Larrivee LV03) as I would rather not worry so much about airlines, warm/cold car trunks, outdoor gigs in hot sun etc.

Maybe I'll end up having to go Emerald, as it sounds like people are finding them to be more refined in tone then others.

[CRM]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

Nope. Not what I said. I have several Taylors and prefer the sound of those guitars over similar model Martins. I did say that I find the tone of my X20 as pleasing as my 814ce. I didn't say they were the same. For the record, I don't find "the Taylor sound" (with all the different models they offer, that is a wide spectrum) thin. I have an 814 that sounds great. A 522ce 12-fret that sounds like an all mahogany guitar (because it is).

I've come across folks who think a Martin dread is "the only acceptable" guitar tone. If that works for them, I'm OK with that. The guitars I have bring a variety of tone, but if I didn't appreciate what each offers, it wouldn't make much sense to buy... duh.

If push came to shove and I had to narrow it down to just one guitar, it would definitely be one of my Emeralds. Great sound, humidity carefree, great playing, and extremely comfortable. I've not been one to tell people what they should play or buy, nor look down my nose at a guitar I don't personally care for. Life is short - you should play what works for you. If someone doesn't care for "the carbon fiber tone," (as if there is one tone that describes all CF options) I don't understand why they would come to this sub-forum. I also don't get the "my Taylor can beat up your Martin" threads either.

I don't give a furry rat's rear what someone else chooses, but I have been playing long enough (over 50 years) to know what I like. People come here to find out about CF, and many of us have stayed because we appreciate not just the guitars or the manufacturers, but also the comradery. To come in and proclaim an entire genre of guitars "thin" or "sterile" simply shows ignorance, bad taste, or an intent to troll.

I'm not familiar with "tainsong," but it sounds like a cheap knock-off of a RainSong.

If you want something that sounds like a J45, I'd suggest checking out a Gibson. I was a "Gibson guy" back in the late 60s and 70s (electric and acoustic; still have a 335)... been a long time since I was "a kid," but as I matured, I opened my mind and ears to more than one tone.

Good luck with your search.

+1 Captain Jim

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

Nope. Not what I said. I have several Taylors and prefer the sound of those guitars over similar model Martins. I did say that I find the tone of my X20 as pleasing as my 814ce. I didn't say they were the same.

I may have misunderstood your post, and as a result, I feel like I may be picking up some thinly veiled contempt here. Easy, Captain.

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

I have an 814 that sounds great. A 522ce 12-fret that sounds like an all mahogany guitar (because it is).

I'm not even going to pretend to dispute any of that. Mostly since I wasn't there.

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

I've come across folks who think a Martin dread is "the only acceptable" guitar tone. If that works for them, I'm OK with that. The guitars I have bring a variety of tone, but if I didn't appreciate what each offers, it wouldn't make much sense to buy... duh.

I'm not one of those cats. I actually sold a great D28 because it wasn't a good fit with my vocals, and I make my living playing and singing.Great guitar that just didn't work for my needs.

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

If push came to shove and I had to narrow it down to just one guitar, it would definitely be one of my Emeralds.

Well thank God nobody is pushing OR shoving, right?

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

I've not been one to tell people what they should play or buy, nor look down my nose at a guitar I don't personally care for.

Yeah, neither was I. Just stated my opinion.

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

Life is short - you should play what works for you.

Agreed. I'm looking for something that works for me in the CF world.

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

If someone doesn't care for "the carbon fiber tone," (as if there is one tone that describes all CF options)

I never said I didn't. I was asking a question. I come to this forum for that sort of thing. We're still allowed to do that, right?

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

I don't understand why they would come to this sub-forum. I also don't get the "my Taylor can beat up your Martin" threads either..

I don't understand how that's applicable here.

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

I don't give a furry rat's rear what someone else chooses, but I have been playing long enough (over 50 years) to know what I like.

Very colorful imagery.

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

People come here to find out about CF, and many of us have stayed because we appreciate not just the guitars or the manufacturers, but also the comradery. .

That's why I asked a question. Trying to learn about carbon fiber guitars. I feel like I might have rubbed you the wrong way. I'm certainly not feeling the camaraderie... yet.

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

To come in and proclaim an entire genre of guitars "thin" or "sterile" simply shows ignorance, bad taste, or an intent to troll.

Wow. Who proclaimed an entire genre to be thin? Please don't put words into my posts.

If you're going to quote me, please be accurate.
I wrote:

"They few CF guitars that I played sounded very articulate and thin like a Taylor. They lacked depth to my ears. Didn’t sound bad, but don’t sound like what I want to hear. I realize that other makers may sound different. I tried two different tainsong models." (Kept the typo in there for quote accuracy!)

I mentioned that the **two** CF's that I played sounded thin. I've played a bunch of Taylors, and personally didn't care for the sound. They don't sound bad, but they weren't my cup of tea. There's an articulateness to them. A nice string separation to the sound that doesn't suit my style.

I've played a bunch of Taylors, and I've run sound and open mic for years. I should have specified that most Taylors that I've come in contact with have a certain sound that doesn't suit what I do. I find most of them to sound thin to my ears. Interestingly enough, my good friend has an 814CE that sounds much fuller than most of the other offerings I've heard, but he also runs it through a Pendulum SPS-1.

There was zero bashing in my original post, just descriptive words used to convey my feelings. In other words: my opinion. It looks like you may have misunderstood me, as I admittedly may have misunderstood you, Captain.

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

I'm not familiar with "tainsong," but it sounds like a cheap knock-off of a RainSong.

Typo.

The pitfalls of typing and not proof reading on a small cell phone screen. Both were Rainsongs. They sounded thin to me. Could have been both models. I'd be willing to try other models as well as other makers though. That's why I'm here. I'll spare you by not scouring your posts for mistakes, and just stay on task here.

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

If you want something that sounds like a J45, I'd suggest checking out a Gibson.

I own a phenominal J45. I came to this forum to find out if any CF offerings were close to or even reminiscent of that J45 tone, and I'd still like to know if those options are out there once you're done reprimanding me for my insolence.

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

I was a "Gibson guy" back in the late 60s and 70s (electric and acoustic; still have a 335)...

I love 335's. They're great guitars.

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

been a long time since I was "a kid," but as I matured, I opened my mind and ears to more than one tone.
.

My mind is open. There is however a guitar tone that I prefer. I think, perhaps you may a bit ruffled that it's not the same as the tone that you like... at least that's what I'm gleaning from your response. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm 43 and I've made my living playing for the last two decades. Yes, you've been playing longer than I've been alive, but I'm still entitled to an opinion. Even if it differs from yours.

Nothing in my post was disrespectful, and nothing I wrote, was even close to trolling. This post remains respectful, and I've even took the time to respectfully address your concerns.

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

I don't give a furry rat's rear what someone else chooses, but I have been playing long enough (over 50 years) to know what I like.

I've been playing for half the time that you have, but I'd really appreciate it, if moving forward, you'd allow ME the chance to not only know what I like, but also allow me to have the audacity to express my opinion about it.

Let me know if there are any descriptive words that are off limits. I'd really rather have some kind and proactive discourse in the future between you and I if possible.

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

Good luck with your search.

You too, Captain!



That said, as I start to explore this CF territory, I'd love to find out if there is anything close to a J45 in sound.

[Kerbie]

Easy, guys. It looks like we have some broad, general comments and lots of people are reacting. Guitars are very personal things. We all have different preferences; we just need to state them politely. Thanks...

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by Kerbie

Easy, guys. It looks like we have some broad, general comments and lots of people are reacting. Guitars are very personal things. We all have different preferences; we just need to state them politely. Thanks...

Agreed. Thank you.

[billyg]

Originally Posted by The Kid!

They sound like Taylor’s? They few CF guitars that I played sounded very articulate and thin like a Taylor. They lacked depth to my ears. Didn’t sound bad, but don’t sound like what I want to hear. I realize that other makers may sound different. I tried two different tainsong models.

Do any offerings sound like a Gibson J45?

Maybe the same pickup as my J45 with a J45 wave map on my Tonedexter might work.

My 2.5 cents:

1. Different CF guitars sound differently, but stunningly consistent within a specific manufacturer and model. Different constructions (hybrid, etc.) also result in tonal differences, but, again, really consistent guitar to guitar within the specific manufacturer and model. (others have said this -- and I agree)

2. I haven't played or heard a CF guitar that sounds like my 1955 J50. But, I LOVE the tone of that guitar. I worry about the bellying below the bridge, etc., but the tone of that specific guitar is "music to my ears."

3. I own a Rainsong P12 and an Emerald T20 Baritone. The Rainsong sounds like a great parlor, is hugely flexible, detunes great, and is a little chimey, so I take care with respect to the strings I put on it. Different Rainsongs I have played bring different sounds to the party. The Emerald is the most interesting Baritone I have ever picked up, and it made me buy it (second hand). Love it. To my ears, Emeralds are getting "rounder and rounder" in tone as Emerald develops its guitars.

4. Both of my CFs are a little neck heavy.

5. As a perspective, to my ears, Taylors can sound "thin or modern," Martins sound like Martins depending on body size, construction, good Gibsons are amazing, and CFs vary between manufacturers. Do try them, but I bet there is one you could like. I have picked up almost every CF guitar I have found in a store over the years and played it so I would grow to understand them. It started with Composite Acoustics many years ago before they were taken over by Peavey and some very early Rainsongs. I did not like the early Rainsongs. But I have liked more modern Rainsongs. And I have appreciated or really liked almost every other CF guitar I have picked up.

6. We really should probably find a short-hand term for "non-wood" as Blackbird isn't making primarily CF guitars anymore, but those instruments are a part of the "non-wood" world and major contributions to this sector.