Is there any Rainsong that got a Top sink

[Merry Gentlemen]

I'm curious to know if there's any Rainsong owner with Top sink in near the neck (Tongue area)?

[kramster]

Interesting question... I never really noticed...I’ll have to look.

[jonfields45]

All of the dreadnoughts and jumbos have this characteristic. In my experience it is less on the twill cut-away models and maybe a bit more visible on the 12 fret CH models.

A RainSong top is not braced or arched. A wood guitar has a relatively large lateral brace at the end of the fingerboard and often a large L-shaped neck block supporting the fingerboard extension. We get used to seeing a truly flat top around the fingerboard extension. The top of a RainSong rotates slightly at the bridge (this it has in common with all guitars). The sound hole is the weakest point in the top (no X brace to reinforce it) which becomes the inflection point in this slight distortion (making the fingerboard dive slightly and the soundhole slightly lowered into the body). The cut-away models don't (to my eye) exhibit the fingerboard dive due to the side supporting the fingerboard extension.

The CH tops appear to my eye to be a little more flexible than the twill tops (or it could be the 12 fret neck placing the bridge more centered in the lower bout). For the cut-away guitars where they are used, this same effect causes a slight ripple around the sound hole as guitar is not symmetrical and the cut-away side of the soundhole is closer to the side.

A RainSong is quite unconventional if judged by wood guitar standards. The CF will not creep over time like wood and if you can get used to how it looks today it will continue to look the same. I've owned a few Emeralds (slightly arched and unbraced top) and CAs (an absolutely flat top braced somewhat conventionally) and they don't have this look around the fingerboard extension. I'm more comfortable with the conventional body shape of a RainSong and find their tone somewhat louder and brighter which works for me.

[Merry Gentlemen]

I'd read the FAQ n downloaded the apps with my iphone hoping to post some pics, but it still ask for URL just like when I'm using my PC. No way to x'fer pics from phone or PC

Wish I can post those pics here to get some advice.

I'd kept my H-WS1000N2 in the case early this year. Just opened it today & found that the top had sunk.

It looks as if the tongue had pressed into the North of the sound-hole

The action is >3.5mm or 9/64"

After loosening all the strings, The sinking is still there. No change at all

Anyone here had face this problem before?

[jonfields45]

If you are sure it is new, and not just noticing it for the first time, I would contact RainSong. I generally remove all the strings when I restring my guitars and both my RainSongs have perfectly flat tops with no string tension.

[Merry Gentlemen]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

If you are sure it is new, and not just noticing it for the first time, I would contact RainSong. I generally remove all the strings when I restring my guitars and both my RainSongs have perfectly flat tops with no string tension.

Yes, I'm the first owner n noticing it for the first time.

[jricc]

Originally Posted by Merry Gentlemen

Yes, I'm the first owner n noticing it for the first time.

Did you ever get in touch with Rainsong? If so what was there reply?

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by jricc

Did you ever get in touch with Rainsong? If so what was there reply?

I exchanges a few messages with him and saw a picture of the guitar and the action is definitely too high (his ruler shows 3 mm, almost 4/32", low E at the 12th fret). The pictures were not wide angle enough to see if the neck bolts or bridge bolts had loosened, or some other problem. He travels a lot and said it would be a while before he could contact RainSong (the guitar is in Singapore).

I think there was a thread dealing with this event, about a year ago.

[jricc]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

I exchanges a few messages with him and saw a picture of the guitar and the action is definitely too high (his ruler shows 3 mm, almost 4/32", low E at the 12th fret). The pictures were not wide angle enough to see if the neck bolts or bridge bolts had loosened, or some other problem. He travels a lot and said it would be a while before he could contact RainSong (the guitar is in Singapore).

Thanks Jon.

[Earl49]

I just looked at my 2001 made WS-1000. After 17 years, the top is pretty much flat, including the area around the fret board extension. I'm not surprised that there is no change with or without string tension.

Please let us know what Rainsong says when you can, MG.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by Earl49

I just looked at my 2001 made WS-1000. After 17 years, the top is pretty much flat, including the area around the fret board extension. I'm not surprised that there is no change with or without string tension.

Sprucetop (a machinist I think) and I (was an electrical engineer) both suffer from guitar OCD and can see things most people would ignore. He and I hashed this out. Definitely only an eye of the beholder issue. I run into similarly afflicted people relatively often on the AGF.

[Earl49]

Well, Jon I put myself through mechanical engineering school working as a machinist, so I like to think that I also have a discerning eye. I doubt that the guitar top is "machinist grade flat", but I don't see any real visible distortion issues that makes me worry. Certainly less than some wood guitars that I've owned, both old and new, and still remaining stable after all these years.

We had a machinist at the local mine living in the village. He was the highest paid man at the mine--higher even than management. He was golden, could make any part.

Periodically the mine would change hands a bunch of new honchos would come in--they were called "white Hats," and they thought of themselves as the top of the chain.

One day a white hat came charging down from the hill and demanded a milled piece he had drawn--it was from a critical piece of machinery. The hat wanted it in an hour or so.

He returned, got the piece, hauled up to the mine and found that the piece didn't fit.

He hauled back down the hill and called the machinist all sorts of stupid and the machinist pulled a drawing out of his drawer and pointed to the exactness of the drawing and the machined piece.

The point here is that machinist are tricky and I am keeping an eye on CF Earl.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by Earl49

Well, Jon I put myself through mechanical engineering school working as a machinist, so I like to think that I also have a discerning eye. I doubt that the guitar top is "machinist grade flat", but I don't see any real visible distortion issues that makes me worry. Certainly less than some wood guitars that I've owned, both old and new, and still remaining stable after all these years.

I think we are used to seeing a radius-ed top and some bridge tilt on wood guitars. RainSongs are not radius-ed and have definitely less bridge tilt. But neither of my RainSongs are absolutely flat under string tension and for some reason it was an expectation I had to get over. To my eye they have a little ripple at the soundhole where the better supported cutaway side is a little less deflected by the bridge torque. My previous Hybrid OM did not exhibit this effect and I suspect the full twill top is a bit stiffer, or the 12 fret neck places the bridge in a weaker (more centered in the lower bout) position. If you look carefully at a CH top with the right light angle you will see RainSong's classic 3x3 twill showing through as it must be underneath the uni outermost layer. Maybe a picture would help:

CH-PA w/PB 10s:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Xz...xDUxfIEaiGf_-P

CH-WS w/PB 11s:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=13t...b7ehpvl8q22p1f