Significance of a Dovetail Neck Joint - Page 3

#31 06-28-2016, 04:18 PM

A dovetail is lightweight, elegant, and stable. It also allows for a more elegantly sculpted heel. If given a choice, I vastly prefer dovetail construction. However, I won't turn my nose up at a guitar just because of a bolt-on neck. My Proulx OM/D is a fine instrument, as is my Weber Big Sky.

That said, some versions of bolt-on necks such as the Bourgeois shown above and Taylor N/T neck have a lot of hardware and structure to support the design. Too much hardware can change the balance of a guitar in ways that I do not particularly like.

GGinMP · #32 06-28-2016, 04:28 PM

Charles Fox had a very well-thought out bolt-on neck joint in his CFox line:

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Feat...ox/cfox01.html

BrunoBlack · #33 06-28-2016, 04:37 PM

And we can't forget to include Huss & Dalton among the builders who use bolt-on necks.

Mark Dalton: "The benefits of a bolt on neck are serviceability. The butt joint we use provides better wood to wood solid contact than other types of joints."

Here it is being connected.

flagstaffcharli · #34 06-28-2016, 05:33 PM

I own examples of both. My favorite guitar is a Martin with an M&T joint. I can't imagine there is only one best way to attach a neck. Take the guitar as a whole.

I'll take pepperoni too.

sbeirnes · #35 06-28-2016, 05:49 PM

I have high quality examples of both and I prefer the tone of my bolt on guitars.

For many years I was a die hard dove tail user but over time I realized I actually like the sound of bolt on guitars better.

sbeirnes · #36 06-28-2016, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

A dovetail is lightweight, elegant, and stable. It also allows for a more elegantly sculpted heel. If given a choice, I vastly prefer dovetail construction. However, I won't turn my nose up at a guitar just because of a bolt-on neck. My Proulx OM/D is a fine instrument, as is my Weber Big Sky.

That said, some versions of bolt-on necks such as the Bourgeois shown above and Taylor N/T neck have a lot of hardware and structure to support the design. Too much hardware can change the balance of a guitar in ways that I do not particularly like.

Being as most of the added mass is located near the centre of gravity of the guitar, I can't see it upsetting the balance too much. For sure there will be some added weight though.

terrapin · #37 06-28-2016, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbeirnes

Being as most of the added mass is located near the centre of gravity of the guitar, I can't see it upsetting the balance too much. For sure their will be some added weight though.

I totally agree, my Bourgeois is just as balanced as my Martin's and I don't notice any weight issues.

Mr. Jelly · #38 06-28-2016, 06:08 PM

I would like a luthier that does an excellent job on my guitar if I'm paying $6000 for it. And that includes the neck joint. The luthier's skills are what you are paying for. So I want as much of his talent and skills as I can get. The wood is not that expensive compared to the cost of a finished guitar. Anyone can tighten a bolt.

Peace

terrapin · #39 06-28-2016, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

I would like a luthier that does an excellent job on my guitar if I'm paying $6000 for it. And that includes the neck joint. The luthier's skills are what you are paying for. So I want as much of his talent and skills as I can get. The wood is not that expensive compared to the cost of a finished guitar. Anyone can tighten a bolt.

Peace

If this implies that someone gets more for their $ simply because the guitar has a dovetail neck joint then I would say that is convoluted reasoning.

BrunoBlack · #40 06-28-2016, 06:20 PM

I'm not advocating for either, but it is interesting to note that many of the guitars we routinely recognize as being outstanding have bolt-on necks. Here is a small sample of some builders that use bolt on connections. The point is, a great guitar is not dependent on a dovetail neck joint.

Goodall
Collings
Bourgeois
Huss & Dalton
Froggy Bottom
Taylor
Bashkin
Breedlove
Baranik
Ryan
Beneteau, and on and on.......

flaggerphil · #41 06-28-2016, 06:34 PM

I don't care what kind of neck it is as long as the guitar sounds and plays the way I want. In my lifetime I've owned both and been happy with them.

lodi_55 · #42 06-28-2016, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

A dovetail is lightweight, elegant, and stable. It also allows for a more elegantly sculpted heel. If given a choice, I vastly prefer dovetail construction. However, I won't turn my nose up at a guitar just because of a bolt-on neck. My Proulx OM/D is a fine instrument, as is my Weber Big Sky.

That said, some versions of bolt-on necks such as the Bourgeois shown above and Taylor N/T neck have a lot of hardware and structure to support the design. Too much hardware can change the balance of a guitar in ways that I do not particularly like.

In what ways, Todd? Is that something you can really feel? Because I have played both and the feel and balance of the guitar doesn't seem to change. Of course, YMMV.

247hoopsfan · #43 06-28-2016, 07:42 PM

I have seen lots of arguments on this forum debating whether something as minor as bridge pin and saddle/nut material affect tone. So I am not surprised to see arguments on both sides of the bolt on neck issue. I suppose the logical answer is that neck join methods do have an affect on tone, but can you really
tell? Most likely the answer to that question is...another argument!

All I know is I have 3 amazing guitars, a Goodall RS, a Larrivee D10 Brazilian,
and a Larrivee JCL 40th Anniversary Edition. The Larrivees have hand fit dovetail
necks, while the Goodall has a bolt on. All 3 guitars are hand made and sound amazing. I have met Jean Larrivee and have great respect for his tried and true approach and 50 years of experience. I also have great respect for James Goodall and his 40+ years of experience. I would never say one is right, and one
is wrong.

I have another debate question....does the fact that my Larrivees have rosewood binding, and the Goodall has koa, does that affect the tone????

Borderdon · #44 06-28-2016, 07:46 PM

The various ways of attaching a neck to a body are fairly limited, after all.
Take a quick spin around some of the audio forums, and the controversy
over different wires/tubes/plugs &c. make any neck attachment discussion
seem pretty tame !

#45 06-28-2016, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lodi_55

In what ways, Todd? Is that something you can really feel? Because I have played both and the feel and balance of the guitar doesn't seem to change. Of course, YMMV.

As I'm handling the guitar I feel more weight in the neck area. Hard to quantify, but I perceive it. When I'm wearing the guitar with a strap, I can feel a bit more tug at the neck side of the guitar.

However, I spend most of my time playing vintage Martins. With a dovetail neck joint, no L-shaped neck block, and no truss rod extension, the vintage Martins balance quite differently than even modern Martins. It's just something I notice.

The only bolt-on neck guitar I've owned and played for any length of time is my Proulx OM/D. It's cocobolo which is heavy to begin with, but Mario put considerable effort into lightening the guitar including using spruce neck and end blocks. I can still feel it in that guitar, but not so much that it distracts terribly from my enjoyment of the Proulx. My audience is no better off either way.