Clip-On Tuners

[JayBee1404]

Sorry you feel the need to adopt the defensive/passive-aggressive tone, I explained that I was just trying to have a polite discussion with you because I didn't understand the apparently conflicting points you'd made earlier. That's what I come here for - to discuss, hear others' POV, and increase my own understanding. If we can't talk about 'stuff' what's the point even bothering with a discussion forum?

I don't come here to fight, and I said in my post that I wasn't looking for a fight, so I'll leave it there. Have a nice day.

[jaymarsch]

Originally Posted by 4-string

I have both.

In general I prefer the poly clip. It’s an amazing little tuner.

The Peterson HD is also very, very good. A bit bulkier than the TC, but still small enough to keep it on.

If sweetened tunings are important the Peterson is the way to go. If not, I would recommend poly clip.

IMO.

This is true for me as well.

Best,
Jayne

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by 4-string

I have both.

In general I prefer the poly clip. It’s an amazing little tuner.

The Peterson HD is also very, very good. A bit bulkier than the TC, but still small enough to keep it on.

If sweetened tunings are important the Peterson is the way to go. If not, I would recommend poly clip.

IMO.

Originally Posted by jaymarsch

This is true for me as well.

Best,
Jayne

And for me.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

[Goodallboy]

I know when anyone I’m playing with is out of tune as well as when I’m out of tune. Hearing when out of tune notes are played is an individual thing. I tend to hear it quite easily and my playing partner seemingly never does. It’s not a skill, it’s just a thing, like a sharper sense of smell.

It would be an easier discussion if everyone understood this isn’t a competition. Personally, I’d trade the sensitive “ear” for more guitar dexterity.

[nickv6]

Originally Posted by justonwo

Look, this argument about strobe tuners is 100 years old. Every time there's a discussion of tuners on this forum, things immediately fall into the usual split of "my chromatic is good enough and you can't hear the difference on your strobe" and "my strobe has the accuracy I need."

Id, I didn't like my chromatic pedal tuner either. When I got my first Strobostomp, I was much more satisfied with the tuning. In the end, erring on the side of being more precise doesn't hurt anything or anyone, and I can hardly see the argument against it if you're willing to pay for a tuner with strobe capability.

Whilst a strobostomp isn't a clip on tuner........ I'd like to raise a question about this type of Peterson tuner. Whilst the display looks like a stroboscopic one and they claim true strob display....is it? The display shows two seperate segments in two rows. But do these two rows revolve independently? On the one I had (which was an earlier model than the latest) the display revolved as one piece. There was no seperation of the harmonics like on a full sized strobe tuner. In which case I would want to call it a imaginary revolving display. Which is no different to a moving display, just clever graphics. But not a strobe. This is a question I'm asking. Do any users see the two displays moving seperately? Accurate to a tenth of a cent is OK but smartphones can be more accurate if that's what you really want....to head for the nervous breakdown.
On the other hand, experimenting with your guitar and a tuner can be very useful in confirming your suspicion that, say, low e needs to be a tad flat on this guitar, or maybe I need less pressure fretting g on sixth string to stay in tune. In this way my playing can adapt better to a particular guitar rather than give me the nervous breakdown. Perhaps?
Nick

[justonwo]

Originally Posted by nickv6

Whilst a strobostomp isn't a clip on tuner........ I'd like to raise a question about this type of Peterson tuner. Whilst the display looks like a stroboscopic one and they claim true strob display....is it? The display shows two seperate segments in two rows. But do these two rows revolve independently? On the one I had (which was an earlier model than the latest) the display revolved as one piece. There was no seperation of the harmonics like on a full sized strobe tuner. In which case I would want to call it a imaginary revolving display. Which is no different to a moving display, just clever graphics. But not a strobe. This is a question I'm asking. Do any users see the two displays moving seperately? Accurate to a tenth of a cent is OK but smartphones can be more accurate if that's what you really want....to head for the nervous breakdown.
On the other hand, experimenting with your guitar and a tuner can be very useful in confirming your suspicion that, say, low e needs to be a tad flat on this guitar, or maybe I need less pressure fretting g on sixth string to stay in tune. In this way my playing can adapt better to a particular guitar rather than give me the nervous breakdown. Perhaps?
Nick

I'm not really sure how the technology differs from the mechanical strobe tuner. I don't see two displays moving separately. I switched from Peterson to a Sonic Research ST-200 many years ago for my pedal board. This product uses a true stroboscope to compare the incoming signal to a reference signal. I assume everyone else advertising themselves as "strobe tuners" are also really strobe tuners - just not the mechanical versions you're used to seeing.

Edit: watch this video. The mechanical and LED versions use the same principle. In the case of the LED, the refresh rate is adjusted by the incoming note frequency. In the mechanical strobe, the pulsed light of the strobe is driven by your incoming frequency. They both use the same principal.



And another video that I think makes some good points. They agree that the human ear can only perceive 1-2 cents of difference but go on to say that the human ear is hyper-attuned to small differences in pitch that can produce beating in a polyphonic instrument (which is the principal for one method of tuning by ear - the one I use when I don't have a tuner).

[phcorrigan]

I use the Planet Waves NS Micro mounted just behind the nut under the headstock. Small and unobtrusive. When this one dies I'll probably buy the clip-free version.

[Goodallboy]

Originally Posted by justonwo

I'm not really sure how the technology differs from the mechanical strobe tuner. I don't see two displays moving separately. I switched from Peterson to a Sonic Research ST-200 many years ago for my pedal board. This product uses a true stroboscope to compare the incoming signal to a reference signal. I assume everyone else advertising themselves as "strobe tuners" are also really strobe tuners - just not the mechanical versions you're used to seeing.

Edit: watch this video. The mechanical and LED versions use the same principal. In the case of the LED, the refresh rate is adjusted by the incoming note frequency. In the mechanical strobe, the pulsed light of the strobe is driven by your incoming frequency. They both use the same principal.




And another video that I think makes some good points. They agree that the human ear can only perceive 1-2 cents of difference but go on to say that the human ear is hyper-attuned to small differences in pitch that can produce beating in a polyphonic instrument (which is the principal for one method of tuning by ear - the one I use when I don't have a tuner).

Thanks for posting these clips. The second one explains why, when I was 14 (I’m now 66) our band director required the entire band to spend some time in front of the Conn Strobe Tuner before we practiced.

My personal experience with my playing partners and their mixed bag of cheap tuners, mirrors the examples in the video. The sound of the 2 cents out-of-tune guitar is a very familiar one.

Try this, ask someone with a high grade tuner to allow you to use it on your instrument. If you can’t immediately tell a big difference, you don’t need a great tuner. Some will hear a marked difference, some will not and everyone comes away better for the experience.

[Purfle Haze]

Originally Posted by Goodallboy

Try this, ask someone with a high grade tuner to allow you to use it on your instrument. If you can’t immediately tell a big difference, you don’t need a great tuner.

Of course, if said guitar is already in tune, there won't be a difference.

Try this: Ask someone with a high-grade tuner if he can discern that a guitar is in tune without using his high-grade tuner.

[robj144]

Originally Posted by nickv6

Whilst a strobostomp isn't a clip on tuner........ I'd like to raise a question about this type of Peterson tuner. Whilst the display looks like a stroboscopic one and they claim true strob display....is it? The display shows two seperate segments in two rows. But do these two rows revolve independently? On the one I had (which was an earlier model than the latest) the display revolved as one piece. There was no seperation of the harmonics like on a full sized strobe tuner. In which case I would want to call it a imaginary revolving display. Which is no different to a moving display, just clever graphics. But not a strobe. This is a question I'm asking. Do any users see the two displays moving seperately? Accurate to a tenth of a cent is OK but smartphones can be more accurate if that's what you really want....to head for the nervous breakdown.
On the other hand, experimenting with your guitar and a tuner can be very useful in confirming your suspicion that, say, low e needs to be a tad flat on this guitar, or maybe I need less pressure fretting g on sixth string to stay in tune. In this way my playing can adapt better to a particular guitar rather than give me the nervous breakdown. Perhaps?
Nick

It's a strobe, not a fake strobe:

"Sonic Research and Planet Waves both released a true-strobe with a bank of LEDs arranged in a circle that gives a strobing effect based upon the frequency of the input note. Both LCD and LED display true strobes do not require mechanical servicing and are much cheaper than the mechanical types. As such, they are a popular option for musicians who want the accuracy of a strobe without the high cost and the maintenance requirements. However, LED strobe displays offer no information about the harmonic structure of a note, unlike LCD types, which do offer four bands of consolidated information."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...#Strobe_tuners

[Jerry D]

Well, I use tuners now. In fact, just ordered a UniTune based on comments from this thread.

Back in the seventies, we never had tuners, of course. We just "eared up". My method was playing the opening to "Walk The Line" from what was in my head on the sixth, fifth and fourth strings and then tuning the other three strings to those. I still tweak my tunings to whatever the clip-on dictated.

Are we missing something these days? (Maybe that's a discussion for another time).

[nickv6]

Originally Posted by robj144

It's a strobe, not a fake strobe:

"Sonic Research and Planet Waves both released a true-strobe with a bank of LEDs arranged in a circle that gives a strobing effect based upon the frequency of the input note. Both LCD and LED display true strobes do not require mechanical servicing and are much cheaper than the mechanical types. As such, they are a popular option for musicians who want the accuracy of a strobe without the high cost and the maintenance requirements. However, LED strobe displays offer no information about the harmonic structure of a note, unlike LCD types, which do offer four bands of consolidated information."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...#Strobe_tuners

Very nice videos, thanks for posting.
What I mean by a strobe tuner is what is indicated at the end of the above quote. Whether or not a note sounds in tune depends on it's harmonic relationship to other notes. So ideally you need to see not just the fundamental frequency but at least some of the harmonic structure. This is what a full strobe does, the bands (appear to) move differently from each other giving you more information about where to set the string. It's this harminic content which makes us want to tweak the tuning however accurate the machine. With a real strobe you get a visual representation of what's going on in a way the clip on version doesn't do...it implies two measurements but it looks to me like it only really gives one.
That's not to say it isn't a great tuner.
Nick

[Goodallboy]

Originally Posted by Purfle Haze

Of course, if said guitar is already in tune, there won't be a difference.

Try this: Ask someone with a high-grade tuner if he can discern that a guitar is in tune without using his high-grade tuner.

Allow me to guess that you are one that doesn't need a highly accurate tuner.

Since I have a highly accurate tuner, I don't need to play guessing games (thanks anyway). I just tune up and play.