The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Build and Repair

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 02-26-2023, 09:43 PM
Wuglan Wuglan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 4
Default 1975 Takamine F-360S - Worth Repairing

Hey folks,
I just bought, for $110, a 1975 "lawsuit era" Takamine F-360s. I see a very thin crack along both sides of the neck heel telling me the neck is starting to lift or separate from the body. I am wondering if it is worth spending the money ($300, $400 ?) on a neck reset. Other than this the guitar is beautiful. I had read somewhere that a neck reset might be quite difficult, and costly, on these old Tak's due to how they were made.
Has anyone with an older Takamine had this work done? Thoughts?
Thanks alot,
Wuglan
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-26-2023, 11:15 PM
pdx pdx is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 579
Default

play it. Its probably a great camping/beach guitar. I wouldn't waste my money on a neck reset. I might be a great guitar to learn how to repair them youself though.
__________________
Patrick
1968 Martin D-28
1975 Martin D-18
1976 Martin 000-18
1989 Martin 000-16M
2015 Martin 00-DB Jeff Tweedy
2012 Gibson J-45 Custom
2017 Gibson J-35
1971 Alvarez K. Yairi Classical
1970 Lou J Mancuso nylon string hybrid
Harmony Sovereign H1260
30's MayBell Model 6
Nash MW-500
1998 Yamaha LS-10
2003 Tacoma EKK9
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-27-2023, 12:10 AM
Dave in Olympia's Avatar
Dave in Olympia Dave in Olympia is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Southern Puget Sound
Posts: 366
Default

If you are on Facebook, join the "Takamine Guitars" page. There are lots of helpful folks there.

My understanding is that the early Tak necks are very difficult to do a reset on.
__________________
2023 000-18MD
2021 000-15SM
2017 00-28
2023 0-18
2023 Guild D-1212
1977 Takamine F-400S
1976 Takamine F-365S
60's Harmony H1213
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-27-2023, 10:19 AM
rstaight rstaight is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 2,666
Default

A couple of years ago I watched a video done at Takamine in Japan. The neck was put on then 2 slots were routed and 2 dowels or dominoes, since they weren't round was glued in place. Then the fret board was glued on.

This method reduces the need for a neck reset. But when one is needed, fun, fun, fun.
__________________
2007 Indiana Scout
2018 Indiana Madison Quilt Elite
2018 Takamine GJ72CE 12-String
2019 Takamine GD93
2022 Takamine GJ72CE 6-String
2022 Cort GA-QF CBB
1963 Gibson SG
2016 Kala uke
Dean A style mandolin. (Year unknown)
Lotus L80 (1984ish)
Plus a few lower end I have had for years
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-27-2023, 11:16 AM
rmoretti49 rmoretti49 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,118
Default

I owned the exact same guitar until last year, when I sold it after nearly 50 years of ownership. Mine, too, was in need of a neck reset. I brought it to an excellent repair shop here in Chicago (Chicago Fretworks), where I was told that these Takamines were very hard to do resets upon. It likely would have been prohibitively expensive, with uncertain outcome.

Instead, I ramped the strings at the bridge, which was helpful. Next step would have been to shave the bridge, but I never got there. By the way, mine sold for several times the cost of yours (it was in otherwise extremely good shape).
__________________
RM
-----------------------------------------------------

Taylor 856, Taylor GC7, Martin 00-28, Breedlove Oregon Concertina, Breedlove Jeff Bridges Signature, Guild JF55-12, Guild D212, Larrivee OM3, Eastman E20 OM, Farida OT22w, Cordoba Fusion 12 Orchestra, Blueridge BR-361, Pono 0-15 mango, Journey OF-660, Tanglewood TWJP parlor (Nashville tuned), Paul Reed Smith SE Custom.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-27-2023, 11:41 AM
J Patrick J Patrick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,679
Default

….it’s extremely crude but the poor mans neck reset can make a guitar that’s headed for the wood pile viable….all you gotta do is saw the neck from the heel to the fretboard where it meets the body….slide some sandpaper in there and sand it down a little and countersink a couple of screws through the back of the heel in to the neck block to pull it back into the proper position…..it takes less than an hour and costs basically nothing…..did I mention it was extremely crude??….but it works and has surprisingly little effect on the tone if done well….I’ve done it on a bunch of old Harmony Stella’s….it’s a better option than the woodpile…
__________________
...Grasshopper...high is high...low is low....but the middle...lies in between...Master Po
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-27-2023, 01:02 PM
stormin1155 stormin1155 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 1,505
Default

What JPatrick is describing many refer to as a "New York reset." Not sure where that term came from... I call them hillbilly resets. I've refined that approach and use it on inexpensive instruments (old Harmonys, Yamahas, and such) or guitars you couldn't otherwise do a traditional reset.

I release the fingerboard overhang like you ordinarily would by heating and running a knife to break the glue joint. Then make a cut between the neck heel and body. I remove material on the heel to achieve the correct neck angle. I then install threaded metal inserts into the heel and run bolts from the inside to reattach. If necessary I'll use a thin shim under the overhang to correct fallaway.

I've done a bunch like this, and they have all turned out good. The process takes a fraction of the time it takes to do a traditional reset (hence, a fraction of the cost if someone was charging for the service).
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-27-2023, 02:28 PM
rmoretti49 rmoretti49 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,118
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stormin1155 View Post
What JPatrick is describing many refer to as a "New York reset." Not sure where that term came from... I call them hillbilly resets. I've refined that approach and use it on inexpensive instruments (old Harmonys, Yamahas, and such) or guitars you couldn't otherwise do a traditional reset.

I release the fingerboard overhang like you ordinarily would by heating and running a knife to break the glue joint. Then make a cut between the neck heel and body. I remove material on the heel to achieve the correct neck angle. I then install threaded metal inserts into the heel and run bolts from the inside to reattach. If necessary I'll use a thin shim under the overhang to correct fallaway.

I've done a bunch like this, and they have all turned out good. The process takes a fraction of the time it takes to do a traditional reset (hence, a fraction of the cost if someone was charging for the service).
Fascinating. I had never heard of this before. I would imagine not many are skilled at doing this.
__________________
RM
-----------------------------------------------------

Taylor 856, Taylor GC7, Martin 00-28, Breedlove Oregon Concertina, Breedlove Jeff Bridges Signature, Guild JF55-12, Guild D212, Larrivee OM3, Eastman E20 OM, Farida OT22w, Cordoba Fusion 12 Orchestra, Blueridge BR-361, Pono 0-15 mango, Journey OF-660, Tanglewood TWJP parlor (Nashville tuned), Paul Reed Smith SE Custom.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-27-2023, 02:43 PM
Tony Burns Tony Burns is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: middle of no where
Posts: 8,030
Default

if it plays fine, i wouldnt worry about a neck reset -
you might be worried about something youd never have to do -
just enjoy the guitar - for a 110 bucks you got a great player
or camping guitar -I did the same thing with an Guild i bought ,
its my play out / camping guitar ( I dont worry about it - love
that guitar - stress free )



.
__________________
---------------------------------
Wood things with Strings !
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-27-2023, 03:22 PM
stormin1155 stormin1155 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 1,505
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmoretti49 View Post
Fascinating. I had never heard of this before. I would imagine not many are skilled at doing this.
It's a bolt conversion, and I know there are others doing it. Yes, it does take some skill and understanding of guitar geometry, but far easier than a traditional dovetail reset. I made a template to make it easier to get the holes in the right places and at the right angles.

Another option, with which I've had varying degrees of success, is to use heat and steam to correct the neck angle. No cutting or neck removal involved. If it were my guitar, that's what I'd try first. Non-invasive and safe (unless you do something really stupid).
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-27-2023, 05:17 PM
Wuglan Wuglan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 4
Default 1975 Takamine F-360S

Thank you all so much for the great advice. This definitely reduced my stress level.
I reached out to a luthier near me to see if he has experience with these guitars and the HillBilly reset. In the meantime I will be putting on some light strings and playing it while keeping an eye on the crack. When I got it the action was perfect, will see if it starts changing after I put on some light strings and play for a while.
Thanks again !!!
Wuglan
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-27-2023, 07:45 PM
jwhelan56's Avatar
jwhelan56 jwhelan56 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Grapevine, TX
Posts: 1,695
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Edmonds View Post
If you are on Facebook, join the "Takamine Guitars" page. There are lots of helpful folks there.

My understanding is that the early Tak necks are very difficult to do a reset on.
I would highly recommend this before you make a decision. There is one member (Charlie Arnold) in the group who is a wizard at doing many repairs/restorations to Takamine guitars. Charlie can likely advise you whether to go on 4th and goal, or punt.

Hope this helps.

Jim
__________________
  • Emerald Amicus
  • Emerald X20
  • Kinscherff High Noon
  • Takamine 2006 Ltd.
  • Takamine EAC48C
  • Takamine ESF40C
  • Tama #3561 Dread
  • Whelan Dreadnought
  • Whelan Grand Auditorium
  • Yamaki YW-80
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-28-2023, 05:29 AM
joed1964 joed1964 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 4
Default

In my opinion, to answer your question, yes, these are worth it. It just depends on how much money/time/effort you're willing to spend.

I'm curious; you mention a couple of cracks on either side of the heel. Can you post pictures of the cracks you mention, that would help the diagnosis/repair. they might be unrelated to the neck angle. You don't specify what is the current action like, or if there is any saddle left to lower?

Do all your research first, and ask a bunch of questions of the luthier you take it to, if you opt not to do it yourself (you don't mention if you've repaired before, and these old cheaper guitars are good to learn on): what would be his approach? why that one over say the xyz approach?

Short of a full-on proper neck reset, which you already correctly surmised is going to be difficult (expensive), others here have already mentioned a few options; ramp the slots, shave the bridge, and the 'sandpaper/New York reset'.

There are plenty of tutorials on the first two options. The 3rd option can be done quick and dirty, or can be quite elegant. I agree with stormin1155's approach in converting to a bolt-on, with all the 'dirty work' being hidden inside. Plenty of big-name manufacturers (Taylor, before the NT neck; Breedlove), and quite a few custom luthiers (Halcyon, others) use the bolt-on method. Here's a link to Frank Ford doing one on a classical guitar, but the approach is the same:

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth...ichreset1.html

Frank's got all the tools, and he's even made a few himself. You really don't need more than a heat gun with a 'low' setting, a thin putty knife, a thin-blade japanese pull-saw (Harbor Freight), a couple 1/4-20 bolts and threaded inserts (Home Depot), wood glue (Tite-bond original is ideal), nerve, and patience.

Again; if you could post pictures of the cracks you mention, and the bridge/saddle, that would help a lot.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-28-2023, 08:02 PM
Wuglan Wuglan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 4
Default

Hi and thanks Joed1964.
I'm going to see if I can upload some pics, gotta figure that out still, but wanted to at least send you this:
So there aside from the cracks at the neck heel there is a thin crack that on the saddle that goes down the middle but not the full length of the saddle. There is also a small crack on the top in front of the sound hole a little below the neck overhang. The saddle is already quite thin as well as the bridge. Maybe shaved down sometime ago, but if it had been it was a nice job b/c I see no evidence around the edges indicating work was done. The action was perfect in my opinion. I didn't measure it but it was as low as the strings on my HD-28. I have the strings off at the moment to clean the frets as they had some oxidation (used Frine kit and came out nice). Oh, and the neck is straight, no bend. I am trying to learn more about repairing acoustic guitars. So far I've done 3 saddle re-glues and straightened some necks on inexpensive guitars I bought. Hoping to try a neck reset someday soon, but not on this one.
Thanks for all your info, most aporeciated!! I'll work on uploading pics.
Wuglan
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-01-2023, 07:23 PM
Wuglan Wuglan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 4
Default Response 1975 Takamine Repair

Hello joed1964 et al --
Not sure if this will work for pic but providing link to Google Photos:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...JQbjBmWVM0cFVR

Let me know if OK
Thanks !!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Build and Repair

Tags
f360, neck, repair, reset, takamine

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=