Taylor 114ce and 317e ES2 Sound amplification issues

murrrayr · #1 07-30-2019, 02:43 PM

Hey guys!

First time posting here so thank you all for your expert knowledge in advance. My mate and I purchased a Taylor guitar each over the weekend in a flash sale. He got a 114ce for 600€ and I got a 317e for 1350€ so we seemed to get a good deal! I originally wanted to 214ce dlx k but settled for the 300 series after playing it! They’re both new so have the e2 pickups.
Anyways we have played for years together using 2 Takamine g series guitars plugged directly into a PA system (LEM system). No DI boxes or anything like that, and the sound was great! We could fill any bar we played in and I could jack up the bass and really have a nice full sound.
We landed to a gig last weekend with our new Taylor’s and we’re disappointed to say the least. The sound was just.....bad. The volume for starters on both guitars was about half that of the taks and on top of that the bass was poor and we just fought feedback all night even though we both had feedback busters and have played the same venue about a hundred times with no issues previously.

Taylor support suggested using the phase switch but that would only fix the feedback surely? Obviously they suggested moving speakers etc and see if that works but it didn’t on the night and now we’re a bit worried about playing them live. I’ve read about DI boxes and we’ve never needed on before? Would it help achieve that loud full bass sound with minimal feedback? We’re just very disappointed considering the taks are 15 years old and half the value but sounded so much better plugged in. Also the pa settings were all neutral for this gig. Any ideas or suggestions we could do to rectify these issues?

btaylor · #2 07-30-2019, 02:50 PM

I just sold my 814ce that had the ES2 in it, however, I liked the ES2. I did have issues with it picking up string noise at first, but figured out that it did NOT like gain. You may check the gain setting and start with nothing and just add a little bit. I will say that mine had the early ES2 preamp that is hotter than the newer ones, but it still may worth a try with yours. I always felt like I got a great sound from my ES2 once I dialed the gain down and got the eq set right.

jazzguy · #3 07-30-2019, 06:16 PM

1. Can you be specific about where your bass, treble and volume controls were set?
2 - Did you change the battery to a new battery before playing? Hopefully you did not have the original battery that the guitar came with?

murrrayr · #4 07-31-2019, 02:38 PM

The gain thing is interesting. We actually had the pa master not at full. Furthermore the pa eq settings were all at zero. The guitar settings (bass, treble and volume) were all adjusted throughout the night. The bass and treble were roughly mid ways maybe the bass a slight bit higher and then the volume at full. The batteries we used interestingly were the ones we got with the guitar. Never even thought of that so thanks for the heads up! Must try lowering the gain and then go from there and see how things go!

btaylor · #5 07-31-2019, 02:48 PM

I always had my eq set in the middle position on the guitar on both knobs. On the board, I'm sure all eq knobs were at least mid ways, some were knotched up a little higher, of course this varies by board and sound preference of whoever is operating. IDK what DI box you might use, but just be careful to make sure the gain is down on the board and the DI, if your DI has gain on it. That halped me a great deal. They also told me to loosen the small screws on the ES2 at the bridge and lower the ES2 about 1/32", but again, I had the hotter preamp than you guys have. IDK if that helped me or not. I attribute the success I had to adjusting the gain down, then slowly creeping it up. I could tell a HUGE difference in the pick/string noise with the gain adjusted higher. Good luck!

pieterh · #6 08-01-2019, 01:34 AM

I like the ES2 a lot, it’s a very natural sounding pickup. That said, it does need tweaking now and then as I imagine heat and humidity changes affect the bridge. Try adjusting the screws on the bridge a small amount, initially backing off pressure on the saddle with the sensor for the low strings (as you seem to be lacking low end) by about a quarter turn at the most. I did this a couple of years after having the ES2 installed in my 414 and it made a huge difference. In fact, I think it probably needs doing again.

MikeBmusic · #7 08-01-2019, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murrrayr

The gain thing is interesting. We actually had the pa master not at full. Furthermore the pa eq settings were all at zero. The guitar settings (bass, treble and volume) were all adjusted throughout the night. The bass and treble were roughly mid ways maybe the bass a slight bit higher and then the volume at full. The batteries we used interestingly were the ones we got with the guitar. Never even thought of that so thanks for the heads up! Must try lowering the gain and then go from there and see how things go!

(Im)proper gain staging may be the culprit.
On the guitar: Volume should be at the mid (notch) position to start with.
On the PA board - with the master volume off, adjust channel gain until the clip light (red) flashes on during hardest strumming, then back it off a bit. If there is no channel clip light, adjust so that the green light comes on /flashes during strumming, but doesn't stay lit all the time.
Put channel volumes up at the '0' level. Put master fader up to desired volume.
Lastly, adjust channel volumes to balance guitars vs mics.

Excessive feedback (booming, I assume, not high pitch squeal) is a function of speaker placement - do you feel the guitar vibrating when it happens? Are there monitors pointing at your guitars?

murrrayr · #8 08-02-2019, 01:02 PM

Thanks for all the replies guys sorry for the late response. The guitars were vibrating. The “a” string as usual was the culprit! Monitor was in front of us but as I said previously in this particular venue it was never an issue before. I’ll try all of the suggestions regarding the gain first and then as others suggested I’ll try adjusting the pickup system. I can get the guitar set up for free from the vendor so that’s not a problem if needs be. Until then I’ve definitely got some things to work on so thanks a mill guys!

RockerDuck · #9 08-02-2019, 03:48 PM

I have a 314e and 414ceR with ES2 that it takes some eq'ing to get right plugged into the PA board because the pickup output being lower. This is actually a good thing and it has to do with the gain. I cured this with a Fishman Platinum pro EQ. I adjust and plug in now with not much adjustments. I've also used a LR baggs para di too. Basically a preamp to boost the guitar volume and eq.

jazzguy · #10 08-09-2019, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murrrayr

Thanks for all the replies guys sorry for the late response. The guitars were vibrating. The “a” string as usual was the culprit! Monitor was in front of us but as I said previously in this particular venue it was never an issue before. I’ll try all of the suggestions regarding the gain first and then as others suggested I’ll try adjusting the pickup system. I can get the guitar set up for free from the vendor so that’s not a problem if needs be. Until then I’ve definitely got some things to work on so thanks a mill guys!

Let us know what you get figured out.