Action and tension on a Taylor

[gabiruman]

Guys could you help with this? i have a taylor 310 ce and i would like to know what would be the perfect action for the guitar, the current one it's 4mm measured on the 12th fret, i would also like to know about the tension of the arm, i have 010 strings and sometimes it still feels like kinda hard, should i mess with the tension or leave it as it is?

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by gabiruman

Guys could you help with this? i have a taylor 310 ce and i would like to know what would be the perfect action for the guitar, the current one it's 4mm measured on the 12th fret, i would also like to know about the tension of the arm, i have 010 strings and sometimes it still feels like kinda hard, should i mess with the tension or leave it as it is?

What would be the preferred action for me might be quite different from what you would prefer. The standard factory setting is a string height of between .004” - .007” away from the 6th fret while holding the string down at the first and fourteenth fret as illustrated in this tech sheet:

http://www.taylorguitars.com/global/...adjustment.pdf

I had a very competent guitar technician adjust mine lower than the factory setting. In some cases, it may be necessary to file the frets to a tighter tolerance in order to lower the action below .004" and not have the strings buzz.

[acousticphd]

What Herb Hunter is describing is relief, I believe, not action (at least not as measured at the 12th fret. If your fingerboard has a lot of relief, that can certainly contribute to higher action in the middle of the the FB. But with such light strings, you would not expect to have way too much relief.

You should be measuring action from the bottom of the string to the top of the fret. If so, 4 mm at the 12th comes out to 10/64", which is way too high, IMO. I don't know what the Taylor "standard" is, but I'm pretty sure it is 6/64" to 7/64". I think also you usually want your treble-side action about 1/64" lower than on the bass side. I think you are better off making action measurements with a good ruler with 64th" gradations. If you are careful and sure of your measurements, you can lower your saddle by twice the amount you want the action lowered at the 12th fret.

I would also check the action at the nut, or actually at the 1st fret, by holding down each string between the 2nd-3rd frets, and tapping the string against the 1st fret. There should be just a bit of daylight between the string and fret top. If your action is high at the nut, you will sure feel that as "stiff".

[gabiruman]

Originally Posted by acousticphd

What Herb Hunter is describing is relief, I believe, not action (at least not as measured at the 12th fret. If your fingerboard has a lot of relief, that can certainly contribute to higher action in the middle of the the FB. But with such light strings, you would not expect to have way too much relief.

You should be measuring action from the bottom of the string to the top of the fret. If so, 4 mm at the 12th comes out to 10/64", which is way too high, IMO. I don't know what the Taylor "standard" is, but I'm pretty sure it is 6/64" to 7/64". I think also you usually want your treble-side action about 1/64" lower than on the bass side. I think you are better off making action measurements with a good ruler with 64th" gradations. If you are careful and sure of your measurements, you can lower your saddle by twice the amount you want the action lowered at the 12th fret.

I would also check the action at the nut, or actually at the 1st fret, by holding down each string between the 2nd-3rd frets, and tapping the string against the 1st fret. There should be just a bit of daylight between the string and fret top. If your action is high at the nut, you will sure feel that as "stiff".

Right but here there are no rullers with gradtion in 64", just milimeters and centimeters.....
Sorry i'm new at this, not at playing but costumizing the guitar so it does fit to me... the only way to lower the action would be scraping the white thing at the bridge right? idk if that's the only way but if it is i would prefer to have an expert dealing with that, cause i'm afraid of ruining something.....

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by gabiruman

Right but here there are no rullers with gradtion in 64", just milimeters and centimeters.....
Sorry i'm new at this, not at playing but costumizing the guitar so it does fit to me... the only way to lower the action would be scraping the white thing at the bridge right? idk if that's the only way but if it is i would prefer to have an expert dealing with that, cause i'm afraid of ruining something.....

Acousticphd is right I was actually describing relief, not string height. I should have spent a bit more time writing my post and gone on to explain the necessity of properly adjusting the neck before determining whether a string height adjustment is necessary.

According to my calculations 6/64 of an inch equals 2.38125 millimeters.

[acousticphd]

Re: "scraping" the white thing - the white thing is the saddle. You don't want to scrape the top, but rather the bottom of the saddle. You certainly can't do any harm by loosening your strings, removing your bridge pins, and removing your saddle. To lower it, you will need to sand off material from the bottom of the saddle, against a a good, hard, flat surface. First, draw a line on the saddle to mark how much you want to remove. Start conservative and remove ~1 mm at a time, restring and recheck your action. The change at the 12th fret will be 1/2 the change at the saddle, so you will ultimately probably want the saddle at least 2 mm shorter. Just take care to finish the bottom surface of the saddle very flat and even. I have similar nice guitars (Taylors, Martins, etc), and though you could obviously hire a pro, this is not an adjustment that any player should feel they should shy away from. At the utmost worst, you may have to replace a $10 tusq saddle and have a pro sand it to height and install it, using the exact same technique. Might as well try to save ~$40 and carefully try it yourself.

[gabiruman]

Originally Posted by acousticphd

Re: "scraping" the white thing - the white thing is the saddle. You don't want to scrape the top, but rather the bottom of the saddle. You certainly can't do any harm by loosening your strings, removing your bridge pins, and removing your saddle. To lower it, you will need to sand off material from the bottom of the saddle, against a a good, hard, flat surface. First, draw a line on the saddle to mark how much you want to remove. Start conservative and remove ~1 mm at a time, restring and recheck your action. The change at the 12th fret will be 1/2 the change at the saddle, so you will ultimately probably want the saddle at least 2 mm shorter. Just take care to finish the bottom surface of the saddle very flat and even. I have similar nice guitars (Taylors, Martins, etc), and though you could obviously hire a pro, this is not an adjustment that any player should feel they should shy away from. At the utmost worst, you may have to replace a $10 tusq saddle and have a pro sand it to height and install it, using the exact same technique. Might as well try to save ~$40 and carefully try it yourself.

I'll analyse that xD thanks

[oldane]

I believe there's no such thing af THE perfect action for an instrument. The desired action is dependent on the playing style. But there are limits within which the adjustments can be done, and this is pretty much determined by the instrument in question. Some types of instruments allow for more adjusments than others.

I have an acoustic archtop which I use for (acoustic) four-to-the-bar jazz rhythm comping with small two and three note chords on the 3., 4. and 6. string. With 13-56 phosfor bronce strings, the action on this gutar is a little over 4mm (a little over 3/16") to allow for very hard picking as a lot of volume without buzz and slap is needed. Freddy Green who played acoustic rhythm guitar in the Count Basie orchestra for 45 years had an action as high as 10-12 mm (approaching ½"). Nobody else could play his instrument - to the amusement of Green, who with a smile used to suggest some more practicing even to famous and seasoned guitarists.

Another archtop of mine with a floating pickup is set up for electric playing with 12-52 flatwounds and has an action of 2.5 mm (around 3/32"). This work well for this kind of playing, because I can use a lighter touch and let the amp do the work. The lower action of course facilitates fast single string playing and use of bar chords (which is close to impossible with the set up mentioned above).

Of course, action adjustments are pretty easy on archtops, and the change in intonation by setting the action higher can easily be compensated for by moving back the bridge a tad as the archtop bridge is only held to the top by the pressure of the strings. All this is much more difficult on flattops which have much less headroom for adjustments.

I'd advice against having an extremely low action. While you may avoid buzzes by playing really soft, you will lack a dynamic range and the max volume will be low. It's possible to get used to a higher action with practice (and maybe by using a finger trainer like the Digiflex). A side benefit of being used to a higher action is that slight defeciences of the instrument is not so painstakingly critical because you don't play "at the margin", and you can pretty much play any guitar you come across. Personally, I have found this very liberating.

[bobframe]

Originally Posted by gabiruman

Right but here there are no rullers with gradtion in 64", just milimeters and centimeters.....

Stew Mac....

[Mauro Pavanelli]

Originally Posted by gabiruman

Guys could you help with this? i have a taylor 310 ce and i would like to know what would be the perfect action for the guitar, the current one it's 4mm measured on the 12th fret, i would also like to know about the tension of the arm, i have 010 strings and sometimes it still feels like kinda hard, should i mess with the tension or leave it as it is?

With a good action ajustment you should try to upgrade your strings gauge. I got a taylor 510 and I use medium gauge strings .013/.056. As all Dreadnoughts a better sound projection and tone could be obtained with thicker strings becouse of the hard top bracing.

[JohnnyDes]

Here's the definitive tutorial on adjusting your own action. I did this for myself for the first time recently. Really pretty straightforward, only requires patience.

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musi...raction01.html

FWIW, my Taylor came out of the factory with both its nut action and 12th fret action too high. I took it to a tech for the nut and did the saddle myself. 12th fret action is now a nice 6/64".

Good luck!

JD

[Pirateslife]

I have an '06 814CE that I want to lower the action on. As usual I found the forum to be of great help. However, in the end I called Taylor CS and was told that the proper way to adjust my particular guitar (and perhaps all those with the bolt on necks?) is either with the neck adjustment and/or truss rod. I took it into a shop they recommended and we're going to go with the neck adjustment. Both the factory and the shop gave me numerous reasons why I should leave the bridge alone.

[LuvAcoustic6]

Originally Posted by gabiruman

Right but here there are no rullers with gradtion in 64", just milimeters and centimeters.....
Sorry i'm new at this, not at playing but costumizing the guitar so it does fit to me... the only way to lower the action would be scraping the white thing at the bridge right? idk if that's the only way but if it is i would prefer to have an expert dealing with that, cause i'm afraid of ruining something.....

I would suggest that you buy a 2nd Tusq Taylor replacement saddle and modify that one till you are satisfied, and keep the TusQ saddle that came with the guitar unaltered.

[charlie45]

meassuring action :

take some supermarket creditcard alike card (your wallet is probably filled with these things, 1 from carrefour or delhaize will do)and cut a few slices from it.

the thickness of 3 slices (stack them up) is the standart height for the action at the 6th string. Slide them between the 6 string and 12th fret.

take 2 slices and slide them between first string and fret.


hope this makes sence and you understand what i'm trying to say.

[Jeff M]

How were you going to adjust the "tension" on your strings?
You mean the guitars action??

As others have noted, there is no "perfect" action.
Different people have different preferences.
The lower the action...the easier it is to fret the strings. Too low and the strings will be muted up the fretboard by the frets/buzz when played.

Another link to Frets.com discussions re; issues pertinent to the discussion...

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musi...raction01.html

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musi...nutaction.html

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musi...Adj/tradj.html