Plastic Saddles may outperform Bone Saddles

Acuestickguitar · #1 12-01-2015, 01:17 PM

Bone is not always the best choice when it comes to choosing the proper saddle material. Especially, when dealing with a UST. Bone density is irregular. This characteristic alters the passage of sound through the saddle, which in turn lead to inconsistent sound reproduction among the strings. This is no big deal when you're not using certain systems, but if a UST is part of rig, these small inconsistencies are a nightmare if you care about string balance. Try plastic again.

Highlander, one of my favorites, recommends Micarta. I have yet to try that.

I actually use a small layer of Mexican Modeling clay between the saddle and the UST to achieve a better balance. Then, I blend the UST with a soundboard transducer (K&K) to achieve better balance. Of course, if you use Highlander or even DTRAR wavelength, you really want to limit the K&K because it's tone lacks.

Finally, I take the blended signal into a DTAR solstice where I blend it with a magnetic pickup -- usually one of my own design.

Any thoughts?

---sorry i don't proofread or list my shabby guitars. no Martins or Taylor's here -- wish I had a Santa Cruz or a Sobell . . .

Silly Moustache · #2 12-01-2015, 01:39 PM

Well it depends upon whether you are seeking the best acoustic sound or electric sound which has little relationship t the real sound of the instrument.

Micarta is used on cheap guitars, but may be more consistent than bone for the purposes of Using a UST. Your choice.

redir · #3 12-01-2015, 02:28 PM

I can show you a lot of things that are true on paper but in practice I have found no difference in bone or plastic in regards to UST's. I've experimented with it enough to not care either way. String imbalance is almost always due to a poorly fitted saddle slot or saddle bottom. I've used Micarta and I like it because it works well and is a nice color.

SpruceTop · #4 12-01-2015, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Well it depends upon whether you are seeking the best acoustic sound or electric sound which has little relationship t the real sound of the instrument.

Micarta is used on cheap guitars, but may be more consistent than bone for the purposes of Using a UST. Your choice.

Taylor uses Micarta saddles for its new Expression System 2. These Micarta saddles are found on ES 2-equipped Taylor 300 Series and up guitars. I'm thinking I'd prefer Tusq saddles but Taylor may have found out that Micarta works best with their new system?

Silly Moustache · #5 12-02-2015, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Taylor uses Micarta saddles for its new Expression System 2. These Micarta saddles are found on ES 2-equipped Taylor 300 Series and up guitars. I'm thinking I'd prefer Tusq saddles but Taylor may have found out that Micarta works best with their new system?

Yeah, so your Taylors are essentially electric guitars more than acoustics. If that floats your boat etc.

SpruceTop · #6 12-02-2015, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Yeah, so your Taylors are essentially electric guitars more than acoustics. If that floats your boat etc.

I don't understand what you mean? I think of Taylors, and any fine acoustic guitar with a pickup system, as acoustic guitars with ready-amplification capability. I suppose every amplified acoustic guitar can be considered an electric guitar but why reference Taylors as being essentially electric guitars more than acoustics?

Petty1818 · #7 12-02-2015, 05:14 PM

I am not sure why it has to be plastic or Bone. I actually prefer Tusq on one of my acoustics as bone is a bit too bright tonally. Micarta and Tusq are far more consistent, which is why they are usually used for UST style pickups. However, there's no reason why bone wouldn't work. I personally would not downgrade to plastic just for a pickup.

Petty1818 · #8 12-02-2015, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Yeah, so your Taylors are essentially electric guitars more than acoustics. If that floats your boat etc.

Yeah, I don't understand this comment either. Although I am sometimes frustrated by the fact that I can't find a Taylor without electronics; acoustic tone always come first with them. The pickup is simply there to make the guitars more versatile/gig friendly. Stating that Taylor's are essentially electric guitars is about as far away from the truth as you can get.

Silly Moustache · #9 12-02-2015, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

I don't understand what you mean? I think of Taylors, and any fine acoustic guitar with a pickup system, as acoustic guitars with ready-amplification capability. I suppose every amplified acoustic guitar can be considered an electric guitar but why reference Taylors as being essentially electric guitars more than acoustics?

I said "your" Taylors.. you know you aren't going to get best acoustic sound from micarta but you are using it for the electric tone.

O.K. Your preference.

I don't like the compromise of USTs so I use bone nuts and saddles as standard, and good mics.

I'm not being snarky - horses for courses.

rokdog49 · #10 12-02-2015, 08:32 PM

This is an interesting subject since I am getting more loudness from my open A string than the rest of them with a UST. Could it be that the saddle is just a little "taller" right at that spot?

Petty1818 · #11 12-02-2015, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rokdog49

This is an interesting subject since I am getting more loudness from my open A string than the rest of them with a UST. Could it be that the saddle is just a little "taller" right at that spot?

It sounds as though your UST is not flat in the saddle. I had one installed by a local luthier years ago that had a similar issue. The UST was not flat and was producing an unbalanced tone.

Spook · #12 12-03-2015, 12:04 AM

UST's are not known for offering up a good acoustic sound. They are known for diminishing the acoustic tone of the instrument as they sap the transfer of vibration from the saddle to the bridgeplate. Bone is a pretty consistent material. If you have problems with string balance a bone saddle is not where I would start looking.

SpruceTop · #13 12-03-2015, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

I said "your" Taylors.. you know you aren't going to get best acoustic sound from micarta but you are using it for the electric tone.

O.K. Your preference.

I don't like the compromise of USTs so I use bone nuts and saddles as standard, and good mics.

I'm not being snarky - horses for courses.

No problem. I've always found you to be good-natured, friendly and helpful but I just wasn't sure what you meant in your comment.

dcopper · #14 12-03-2015, 04:04 PM

I use bone over tusq in my Taylors. To me it has a more complex depth of tone. I would agree with the opinion that Tusq is consistent. Taylor always promotes that idea but interesting that they put bone nut/saddles in their high end guitars and upcharge for it on everything else.

Now, the new 914 is no longer bone. I think a bone nut and saddle would help that guitar with a deeper, fuller voice. My 914 and Custom GA quilted sapele have bone and I love the tone of the guitars. I put a bone saddle in my 814 cocobolo LTD and it sounds far better than the tusq.

Just my opinion on my three guitars. Play a 914 with bone against a new 914 and you will see (and hopefully hear) the difference.

If you want to experiment with bone, I would suggest trying a saddle first - they are relatively inexpensive (Check out Bob Colosi Custom saddles) and you may not need to switch out the nut.
davidc

Audie · #15 12-03-2015, 08:56 PM

My Taylor with the ES 2 came with bone nut and saddle. I agree bone density is inconsistent but during QC any inferior bone if installed at all will be replaced. I have had great results with ebony saddles. My Pagelli was great before the ebony saddle and even more so after changing the bone for ebony. Highly reccommend people try it.