A sale for the Warm Audio fans in the group.

[jim1960]

Front End Audio has some Warm Audio B-stocks at about 25% off the regular price.

[Bowie]

I have a couple FrontEnd B-Stock Warm mics I use for testing tubes (their U67 and C800G). I've no idea what the supposed blemishes are. The performance is unaffected and they don't seem to have any physical defects. Maybe there's a typo on them or something I overlooked.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Bowie

I have a couple FrontEnd B-Stock Warm mics I use for testing tubes (their U67 and C800G). I've no idea what the supposed blemishes are. The performance is unaffected and they don't seem to have any physical defects. Maybe there's a typo on them or something I overlooked.

I've found that to be the case with every B-stock thing I've ever bought. Some years back I bought a Cordoba GK Studio Negra B-stock. I literally went over that guitar with a magnifying glass trying to find a blemish and nothing. Most recently, I bought a couple of things when All-Clad was running their B-stock/blemish sale. Paid about half of retail for the two things I wanted, can't find anything wrong with them. B-stock doesn't scare me.

If there's something at that link someone has been wishing for, they should grab it.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by Bowie

I have a couple FrontEnd B-Stock Warm mics I use for testing tubes (their U67 and C800G). I've no idea what the supposed blemishes are. The performance is unaffected and they don't seem to have any physical defects. Maybe there's a typo on them or something I overlooked.

Did any tubes make significant differences in these mics, specifically bring them closer in sound to the Neumann and Sony models they are based on?

[dnf777]

Originally Posted by jim1960

I've found that to be the case with every B-stock thing I've ever bought. Some years back I bought a Cordoba GK Studio Negra B-stock. I literally went over that guitar with a magnifying glass trying to find a blemish and nothing. Most recently, I bought a couple of things when All-Clad was running their B-stock/blemish sale. Paid about half of retail for the two things I wanted, can't find anything wrong with them. B-stock doesn't scare me.

If there's something at that link someone has been wishing for, they should grab it.

Ditto. I jump at b-stock and even “open box”. Way I see it, EVERYTHING we touch is already an open box. Just costs a lot more if YOU insist on opening the box.

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

Did any tubes make significant differences in these mics, specifically bring them closer in sound to the Neumann and Sony models they are based on?

They can make big differences over the Russian stock tubes. I don't want to get too much into that as that's part of what I do for a living and I don't like to self-promote on forums. But, I'll share something interesting as far as originality goes. The WA8000 actually comes with a French tube that is sonically superior to the Russian tube Sony uses. Finer detail, faster response, smoother, etc. But, that aggressive "sizzle" in the upper-mids that the Russian tube has is something people associate as part of the C800G sound, so I'm often asked to screen Russian tubes for WA mic owners who already have a better tube in their mic (and I make sure they know that).

In the case of the U67, Klaus Heyne's review of the Neumann re-issue gives a very good description of the stock tube vs two of the better vintage options. I've A/B'd a vintage original with a re-issue (using the same NOS tubes) and I feel the vintage mic had a slightly smoother, richer quality. They usually do. But, it's close enough that the re-issue deserves respect as being a one of the best modern production microphones.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Bowie

In the case of the U67, Klaus Heyne's review of the Neumann re-issue gives a very good description of the stock tube vs two of the better vintage options. I've A/B'd a vintage original with a re-issue (using the same NOS tubes) and I feel the vintage mic had a slightly smoother, richer quality. They usually do. But, it's close enough that the re-issue deserves respect as being a one of the best modern production microphones.

Just so I understand clearly, you're saying the reissue benefits from a tube swap, yes?

I haven't heard one with anything but the tube it ships with and that mic didn't get me excited because something was off so far as being reminiscent of a vintage 67. I had been looking for a 67 clone that appealed to my ears for years and every one that came along disappointed me ...until the Beesneez BU67 came out last year. I couldn't pull the trigger fast enough on that mic.

[dnf777]

Originally Posted by Bowie

They can make big differences over the Russian stock tubes. I don't want to get too much into that as that's part of what I do for a living and I don't like to self-promote on forums. But, I'll share something interesting as far as originality goes. The WA8000 actually comes with a French tube that is sonically superior to the Russian tube Sony uses. Finer detail, faster response, smoother, etc. But, that aggressive "sizzle" in the upper-mids that the Russian tube has is something people associate as part of the C800G sound, so I'm often asked to screen Russian tubes for WA mic owners who already have a better tube in their mic (and I make sure they know that).

In the case of the U67, Klaus Heyne's review of the Neumann re-issue gives a very good description of the stock tube vs two of the better vintage options. I've A/B'd a vintage original with a re-issue (using the same NOS tubes) and I feel the vintage mic had a slightly smoother, richer quality. They usually do. But, it's close enough that the re-issue deserves respect as being a one of the best modern production microphones.

That is very interesting! If you ever get the urge to elaborate, you certainly will have my two ears tuned in!

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Bowie

They can make big differences over the Russian stock tubes. I don't want to get too much into that as that's part of what I do for a living and I don't like to self-promote on forums. But, I'll share something interesting as far as originality goes. The WA8000 actually comes with a French tube that is sonically superior to the Russian tube Sony uses. Finer detail, faster response, smoother, etc. But, that aggressive "sizzle" in the upper-mids that the Russian tube has is something people associate as part of the C800G sound, so I'm often asked to screen Russian tubes for WA mic owners who already have a better tube in their mic (and I make sure they know that).

In the case of the U67, Klaus Heyne's review of the Neumann re-issue gives a very good description of the stock tube vs two of the better vintage options. I've A/B'd a vintage original with a re-issue (using the same NOS tubes) and I feel the vintage mic had a slightly smoother, richer quality. They usually do. But, it's close enough that the re-issue deserves respect as being a one of the best modern production microphones.

On a completely off topic side note I wonder if Klaus is still in Zig Zag Oregon ?

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Just so I understand clearly, you're saying the reissue benefits from a tube swap, yes?

Yes, with the caveat that audio is all about personal taste. For example, if someone uses a bright tube and their tastes are for a more mellow sound, then no amount of detail and response will make that tube better if it's too bright for them. A lot of people read that they should go with a Telefunken, then they get one and, if it's too bright, they go back to the stock tube and are left with a bad impression of vintage tubes, when they simply got the wrong one for their tastes.

Russian and Chinese tube development never caught up with the US, UK , and EU. What they make now is similar to what they were making in the 70's and 80's. With tubes being a novelty now, there's no budget for significant development. It's not like resistors and caps where they get better and better because they are critical components. In this century, a company reportedly spent millions to start making tubes on the old Mullard UK site again and failed. Tubes are simple but so much lies in the nuances that are lost to time.

This is something a lot of people get tripped up on. They think modern tech means tubes now must be superior. Back in the day, governments were investing quite a bit of money in tube development, they weren't as limited on the materials they could use, and the labor was good. There's no real money in it now and tubes aren't driving our military, communications, etc like they used to.

It's not a matter of Neumann using a cheap or bad tube as some think. They are using the original type (EF86) and the only EF86s they can get in sufficient quantity are Russian.

Originally Posted by KevWind

On a completely off topic side note I wonder if Klaus is still in Zig Zag Oregon ?

I don't know how much personal info he publishes so I probably shouldn't comment. I'll say I'm not familiar with Zig Zag though.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Bowie

It's not a matter of Neumann using a cheap or bad tube as some think. They are using the original type (EF86) and the only EF86s they can get in sufficient quantity are Russian.

From a production pov, that makes sense and now I understand why Neumann did what they did with the reissue.

While a 67 wasn't a priority for me, I was always on the lookout for a good 67 clone but it seemed like no one could get it right for some reason. When chatter of a Neumann reissue began to circulate in the forums, I was really excited for that mic to hit the market. And then it did.

I wasn't in love with the idea of spending $7k on a mic, but if Neumann pulled off what others couldn't, I'd have talked myself into it eventually. But then I heard the mic and was very much underwhelmed. I haven't come across any audio of the reissue with a tube swap but I've heard people say that's what is needed to get that vintage 67 mojo. The idea of spending $7k on a mic and having to immediately buy a replacement tube made the mic less enticing, especially since I'd be going into that pretty blind.

I pretty much resolved myself to the notion that, for whatever reason, a 67 just cannot be cloned well. Then that Beesneez BU67 came along and that mic sounded much closer to a vintage 67 than any clone I'd ever heard. I'd never bought one of their mics before but it only took me a few days of listening to clips of that mic before I ordered one.

My next mic project is to upgrade my Telefunken AR51. I got a really nice deal on a used one. The capsule is the weak point. I've been trying to get a new capsule from Tim Campbell since October '22 but he's been swamped supplying capsules to Flea for their 251 which came out right about the time I asked. I may wind up buying one from Beesneez if Tim can't come through. Once the capsule is swapped, I may be scratching at your door for a tube.

[anton]

Originally Posted by KevWind

On a completely off topic side note I wonder if Klaus is still in Zig Zag Oregon ?

Yea i was in a recording studio a few years back and i was surprised to see some of his modded mics with an Oregon address. I'm in Portland. We drive through Zig Zag on the way to Mt Hood.

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by jim1960

From a production pov, that makes sense and now I understand why Neumann did what they did with the reissue.

While a 67 wasn't a priority for me, I was always on the lookout for a good 67 clone but it seemed like no one could get it right for some reason. When chatter of a Neumann reissue began to circulate in the forums, I was really excited for that mic to hit the market. And then it did.

I wasn't in love with the idea of spending $7k on a mic, but if Neumann pulled off what others couldn't, I'd have talked myself into it eventually. But then I heard the mic and was very much underwhelmed. I haven't come across any audio of the reissue with a tube swap but I've heard people say that's what is needed to get that vintage 67 mojo. The idea of spending $7k on a mic and having to immediately buy a replacement tube made the mic less enticing, especially since I'd be going into that pretty blind.

I pretty much resolved myself to the notion that, for whatever reason, a 67 just cannot be cloned well. Then that Beesneez BU67 came along and that mic sounded much closer to a vintage 67 than any clone I'd ever heard. I'd never bought one of their mics before but it only took me a few days of listening to clips of that mic before I ordered one.

My next mic project is to upgrade my Telefunken AR51. I got a really nice deal on a used one. The capsule is the weak point. I've been trying to get a new capsule from Tim Campbell since October '22 but he's been swamped supplying capsules to Flea for their 251 which came out right about the time I asked. I may wind up buying one from Beesneez if Tim can't come through. Once the capsule is swapped, I may be scratching at your door for a tube.

I have a lot of colleagues who consider it the best clone available. Some of these guys have spent years rolling various capsules, transformers, etc and most of them have owned originals. I'm no fan of modern Neumann mics but, having compared them myself side-by-side, I have to admit they did right with the 67RI. The sense of depth it captures by pulling out low-level details is something that doesn't come through in clips. If it wasn't for the fact that I have an open invitation to borrow a historic U67, I might pick up the new Neumann and do a couple small mods. Either that or an Upton 251. Those are magnificent.

Individual tastes will vary though and I always respect that. Not everyone likes or dislikes a mic for the same reasons. Vintage mics vary quite a bit too so one person's experience with a mic won't always be the same as another's.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by anton

Yea i was in a recording studio a few years back and i was surprised to see some of his modded mics with an Oregon address. I'm in Portland. We drive through Zig Zag on the way to Mt Hood.

I believe Zig Zag came up as his location a number of years ago over on Gear Space, and I took note as I grew up outside Portland and learned to ski on Mt Hood in 1955 Yikes I am gettin' old