Zoom R4. Anyone else?

[dnf777]

Originally Posted by anton

Im confused by the no gain part. How does that work with a source that is louder or quieter? There is probably some aspect of 32 bit recording i don’t understand

Not sure I could explain it (not sure I understand it myself) but it works. Really well, too. Heres a link to a pretty good summary

https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/news/32-b...-need-to-know/

[Rudy4]

To answer the question, Yes. I now own a new Zoom R4 and a 128 gig card to complete it. I will post a "NMTRD"* topic here in the "RECORD" forum after I play with it a bit. My intentions are to record one of my self-penned songs that are in the backlog of stuff I want to eventually get to. At least its a good excuse to get me a little more motivated in 2024!

* "New Multi-track Recorder Day". It occurred to me that some might find that not easily translatable!

[GoPappy]

I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts on the R4.

[dnf777]

Originally Posted by GoPappy

I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts on the R4.

I am too--Rudy has always bee a source of advice and inspiration for this at-home hobbyist.

I think the mental hurdles are bigger than any real audio/acoustic hurdles the 32bit float presents. After thinking I was comfortable with it, I hooked up an EarTrumpet labs mic in a single-mic setting, and STILL looked to increase the gain to capture a wider set of sources. Not necessary, I guess you just start recording and let the processor choose the correct preamp (there's two, automatically chosen).

Awaiting Rudy4's take on this thing....

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by dnf777

I am too--Rudy has always bee a source of advice and inspiration for this at-home hobbyist.

I think the mental hurdles are bigger than any real audio/acoustic hurdles the 32bit float presents. After thinking I was comfortable with it, I hooked up an EarTrumpet labs mic in a single-mic setting, and STILL looked to increase the gain to capture a wider set of sources. Not necessary, I guess you just start recording and let the processor choose the correct preamp (there's two, automatically chosen).

Awaiting Rudy4's take on this thing....

I'm learning and experimenting a bit, so no in depth comment here yet.

I did post my initial thoughts in the "What do think of the H1?" topic, though.

Those comments are HERE.

[dnf777]

I read your comment on the H1 thread, and agree with your thoughts about the 32bit recording. Like I said earlier, I think there are some mental hurdles more than actual audio/electronic hurdles that users have to get over. You're right (I think), its not just auto-gain setting. Its a much larger palette to paint upon with MUCH more data available to use in capturing audio. So the "no clipping" at any SPF is NOT akin to just turning down the gain knob on a traditional preamp. Understanding that, I believe is key.

Having said that, I *think* I understand the high SPF handling aspect, but what has me confused is the recording of lower SPF audio, such as more distant single-mic application where you would normally turn up the gain. I also understand *I think*, the dual processors that are chosen by the brain chip, depending on incoming audio strength and capture.

For single mic applications, I'm just going to go with what minimal knowledge I have, and play around and try to figure out a practical understanding. Fun little gadget though, for under 2 bills. Cant say that very often nowadays!

[Eastbound]

I guess the 32 bit recorders mentioned here have dual analogue to digital converters. One is for soft sounds and one is for loud sounds. Probably the recorder decides which converter to use and thus the input gain is always at the correct level. Why this means 32 bit, I have no clue

I've been looking at the F3 over the R4, only because the preamp noise specs are a bit better

[Sittius]

Originally Posted by dnf777

I dont have the other Zooms, but I dont think they have multi-tracking ability, whereas the R4 does.

The H4N does have multi-track. It's 24 bit,though and out of production. I still find mine useful, but I have slightly impaired vision, so the R4 display could easily persuade me to upgrade!

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Eastbound

I guess the 32 bit recorders mentioned here have dual analogue to digital converters. One is for soft sounds and one is for loud sounds. Probably the recorder decides which converter to use and thus the input gain is always at the correct level. Why this means 32 bit, I have no clue

I've been looking at the F3 over the R4, only because the preamp noise specs are a bit better

Zoom keeps improving their preamp self-noise specifications. The R series recorders all have very good specifications, probably good enough that all of the other considerations such as room isolation, microphone self-noise, etc. will generally play a far greater role in producing good recordings. Even the previous generation of R series was pretty good, with the only time that preamp noise came into play was when using a dynamic mic which required pushing the preamp gain levels high enough to get some hiss from the pres added in.

I think the larger problem with 32 bit float recorders is going to be getting users to understand that proper recording techniques such as mic placement make an even bigger contribution to using 32 bit float effectively. There are going to initially be a whole lot of new users who think it's automatically going to create recording Nirvana for them.

I've watched several of the newer "32 bit float explained..." videos, and Julian Krause's is really quite good at presenting a clean and concise explanation. I like his one word explanation for why someone would chose to use 32 bit float. I won't spoil it for anyone, though.

[Yeah]

I used to have an h4n, I now have an R4.

THe pros for the H4n were that it had more than decent xy mics to record acoustic guitar in stereo.

If you do not have mics at home, I would recommend the H4n, since the R4 mic is too basic.

The pros of the R4 are that it is way easier to use, and more user friendly. Being USB-C, you can connect it to any cellphone and not depend on a cable and an aoutlet, or on batteries. THe 32 bit float lets you record two trakcs and adjust their gain AFTER recording in a way faster, easier way than the H4n would. Also, the bouncing option and the effects are easier and faster to use. Overdubbing on this device is so easy it is crazy.

I think an R4 with two good stereo included mics and a small speaker (the only two features I miss about the h4n), would be unbeatable.

[dnf777]

[QUOTE=Yeah;7385953

If you do not have mics at home, I would recommend the H4n, since the R4 mic is too basic.

I think an R4 with two good stereo included mics and a small speaker (the only two features I miss about the h4n), would be unbeatable.[/QUOTE]

I thought the same thing, but if I were starting from scratch on a budget, you can get an R4 and two Behringer C2 SDCs for a lot less than many other setups. That also gives you much more mic placement options, which IME is where much of recording quality eludes me. As for a speaker, I have always used headphones, as those nickel-sized speakers never did it for me.

But I bet you are right. Once the companies sell off their NOS of recorders, I bet an updated version of the R4 with mics and speaker may be introduced.

Rudy, thanks for linking that YT. Krause has been super helpful with his reaper vids. (is he flesh and blood.....or AI/CGI?)

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by dnf777

I thought the same thing, but if I were starting from scratch on a budget, you can get an R4 and two Behringer C2 SDCs for a lot less than many other setups. That also gives you much more mic placement options, which IME is where much of recording quality eludes me. As for a speaker, I have always used headphones, as those nickel-sized speakers never did it for me.

But I bet you are right. Once the companies sell off their NOS of recorders, I bet an updated version of the R4 with mics and speaker may be introduced.

Rudy, thanks for linking that YT. Krause has been super helpful with his reaper vids. (is he flesh and blood.....or AI/CGI?)

No problem, sometimes it's difficult to find stuff that's really spot on for what you're trying to learn about. I appreciate Julian's honesty.

Yes, The Behringer C2 mics are a pretty good starting point for new recordists.



I think Zoom purposefully left the speaker off the R4 because they universally get really bad comments. The built in speakers on these recorders are really meant just to provide a means for users to determine if they have actually recorded anything or to locate which file has what you're looking for. It's perhaps better to simply leave them off than to get users who are expecting to hear good audio from a tiny piezo speaker.

The mic thing is similar, because on board mics usually means orienting a recorder in a position that means it's not very easy to operate the buttons or see the display. It's WAY better to plug in a pair of external mics so you don't have to deal with mic positioning that makes it impossible to use the recorder. Zoom's larger problem is to make those points apparent to potential users.

As witnessed on this forum we're already seeing evidence that there are those that see the marketing blurbs and don't understand the technology of 32 bit float. It does not negate a need to understand the proper way to capture audio, regardless of what might be touted by Zoom or any other manufacturer.

[Yeah]

Originally Posted by dnf777

I thought the same thing, but if I were starting from scratch on a budget, you can get an R4 and two Behringer C2 SDCs for a lot less than many other setups. That also gives you much more mic placement options, which IME is where much of recording quality eludes me. As for a speaker, I have always used headphones, as those nickel-sized speakers never did it for me.

But I bet you are right. Once the companies sell off their NOS of recorders, I bet an updated version of the R4 with mics and speaker may be introduced.

Rudy, thanks for linking that YT. Krause has been super helpful with his reaper vids. (is he flesh and blood.....or AI/CGI?)

Yeah, that is the way I would start if I had to start setting up a home studio from scratch.

Forgot to mention, another thing I think the R4 beats the H4n is its Audio Interface usability. It works a lot better as one.

Also, given that a regular Ipad now can work on 32 bit float, the R4 is great as a really portable audio interface. YOu can use it withour having to worry about setting gain and its footprint is super small.

[dnf777]

After a couple weeks playing around, Im really liking this gadget.
This is my easily mobile field recording rig (and dedicated fan club).

I dont miss a speaker. Phones are much preferred in almost all situations, as is an external mic (or two). The Ear Trumpet feeds the recorder quite well for single mic set ups, and I really havent tried the stereo WA84s yet.

After watching the Krause vid Rudy posted, I think Im coming around to this new technology. Main takeaway for me, is dont forget or neglect the recording basics. 32bit float will NOT correct those faults.

[ghostnote]

A question: how many times can you bounce tracks? Or, rather, how many tracks can you record on the R4 by bouncing? For example, with old 4-track cassette recorders, you could bounce tracks until you recorded a maximum of 10 tracks, at which point there was no more room. Is the R4 similar to that?
I should add that I’m quite familiar with basic recording and I do a lot of it on other machines. I already have portable recording options but I’d be interested in one of the R4s if there was a considerable upside - not sure that the 32 bit float is enough reason on its own. The price is certainly right.