#46
|
|||
|
|||
Even if it's an ignorant, uninformed opinion?
|
#47
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Here's Coltrane playing Cousin Mary from a few years earlier, you may find this makes more sense: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuWjE7nAB2s |
#48
|
||||
|
||||
As I said in my original post on this subject, I'll get blasted for my opinion. Mr Beaumont proves my point, beautifully, that jazz is an elitist, exclusive club for "intelligent" musicians...and that if you don't "get it" then you must be some lower form of musician.
|
#49
|
|||
|
|||
the only elitist in this thread is you man...delusional enough to think you can have an informed opinion on anything with five minutes experience and full of enough self importance to grace us with this opinion in a thread completely unrelated to it.
Nobody gives a hoot if you listened to jazz for five minutes and decided you didn't care for it. But tout your off base opinions in a thread about wanting to learn and play jazz? Gimmie a break. You're getting blasted all right, but not for your opinion, it's for the crass, off topic, confrontational way you shared it. |
#50
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#51
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#52
|
|||
|
|||
Predicted it because you knew the way you presented it would get a rise. It's called trolling.
|
#53
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
If you take away improvisation, you take away the heart and soul of an awful lot of music in the world. Obviously it's not for everybody. And some of us can do it in some styles better than others. I never was very good at playing rock solos off-the-cuff. I had to work at those more. Last edited by woa_horsey; 08-25-2012 at 03:58 PM. |
#54
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Like a friend of mine (also a music-aholic) once said to me "you can't like everything."
__________________
2018 Farida OT-22 (00) 2008 Walden CG570CE (GA) 1991 Ovation 1769 Custom Legend Deep Bowl Cutaway 2023 Traveler Redlands Spruce Concert "Just play today. The rest will work itself out." - Bob from Brooklyn Last edited by ruger9; 08-26-2012 at 07:29 AM. |
#55
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
First...I have listened to alot more than 5 minutes of jazz. I was being facetious. Certainly not an extensive study by any means, but a fair amount. Second...I implied by my words that I consider all jazz to be "a disorganized mess". I don't. I've heard much music that falls under the category of jazz that is melodic and beautifully done. Maybe not my cup of tea, but well done nonetheless. Third...I stand by my original statement when it comes to the more avante-gard, off the wall stuff that I've heard. Just like the rock guitar god who plays every lick he knows in a 15 minute wank fest called a solo...some jazz simply is not listener friendly, and is indeed "a disorganized mess". Fourth...It was never my intention to hijack this thread with my comments, but to me, threads on forums like this are much like conversations...and conversations don't always maintain a laser-like focus on the original topic. They often twist and turn, and wander down side streets into some pretty interesting territory. Sometimes you even can get a lively debate going. I don't know about anyone else...but I usually wind up learning something from those debates. |
#56
|
|||
|
|||
IMO people listen to different gerves of music because the road took them there ...i dont see why someone MUST like J.S.Bach ..even though he is considered the father of western music.
Last edited by Paikon; 08-26-2012 at 09:26 AM. |
#57
|
|||
|
|||
'Jazz' encompasses over 100 years of really cool music. Personally I prefer pre-1940 jazz when it was more of an ensemble thing. Traditional New Orleans jazz is my favorite and I've learned an awful lot by playing it. Originally jazz was not quite so harmonically complex as it is now. Pretty simple chord voicings with lots of +5 dominant chords. When big band swing came about in the 30s and 40s there was a swing (pun intended) towards less improvisation and more composed parts for the different sections of the band. As soon as I got to bop I stopped - no interest there for me.
I learned by learning the tunes - simple as that. And I learned them by jamming with other people who knew them. After a while you start to learn the language, no different from blues, rock, country or whatever. You start recognizing chord progressions and melodic patterns. Then you start learning how to improvise over chord changes. It's a never ending process and thats one of the things I love about it. Great advice I heard once: If you want to learn to play jazz, play with a singer. You will learn the chord progressions and melodies. After that it's up to you. Have fun. Rev George |
#58
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Quote:
Some classical music sounds to me like a disorganised mess. But of course I know it isn't. I know there is total organisation in there, I'm just not able to hear it, or appreciate it. (But I don't care, and wouldn't dream of posting such an opinion on a classical site.) When it comes to Coltrane's later work, I have a similar response to yours. (Eg, I didn't get A Love Supreme at all. It sounded to me like a lot of squawking.) But I would never say it "is" a disorganised mess, because I know better. I know Coltrane was very serious about what he was doing; he wasn't pretending to be serious. I don't mind that it doesn't "speak" to me. I don't mind that it doesn't appeal to a lot of people; it's not "listener friendly". So what? It'd be a pretty dull world if all music was "listener friendly". Quote:
Chinese, or Urdu, sounds like gibberish to me. But I know it isn't. Same with any musical language you don't understand. IMO, the problem isn't your opinion (which I share to some degree), or that you were inserting it here where it was somewhat pointless. It's that you were stating your opinion as if it was fact. You said "it is", not "sounds to me like it is". A subtle distinction, but an important one. Even if we might agree that jazz is "elitist" (that could be a fact, not just an opinion), so what? Jazz - at least post-bebop jazz - is certainly a minority interest. A hell of a lot of music genres only have minority audiences. Doesn't mean they're bad - and doesn't mean they're good either. And it's true that fans of such minority musics often look down on those who don't appreciate it. A lot of music fans (of all kinds of music) like to see themselves as part of an exclusive club. That attitude (and I agree it's unpleasant) is not restricted to jazz fans. (Personally I get pissed off at classical aficionados who insist on using the word "Music" (capital M) to describe their favourite artform, with the implication that other forms of music are somehow not real "music" at all; they believe classical music is inherently superior by definition.) |
#59
|
||||
|
||||
I was reading, comprehending, and even agreeing with some of your post until I got to this..
To say my jaw dropped would be a gross understatement. Would you like to rephrase that, or am I correct in assuming that any old noise can be called music. What is music supposed to be if not user friendly? |
#60
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Jazz is a huge music...I don't like all of it either, nor do I think less of folks who don't. It's misinformation that bothers me...for example, ruger said in his last post that he didn't like bebop and mentioned miles davis...miles played bebop for only a few of his fifty year career! He invented a kind of jazz that was a rebellion against bebop! You've gotta scratch past the surface in a music so big...until you do, "i don't like it" is fine, but calling it disorganized and elitist is really off the mark... Plus, I still don't see what the use is in ssying "i don't like jazz" in a thread about wanting to learn to play it...this is a conversation, and just like in a real conversation, an off topic remark can alter it's course. |