How to write chords for a song?

[Bern]

Originally Posted by Ruark

D............A7......................Bm.....F#m... ..
This old guitar taught me to sing a love song

Where does he get the D, A7, Bm, F#m, etc. so that it sounds so nice with the vocal melody? Can somebody point me to some simple, basic guidelines on how to do this? I apologize if this is a stupid question.

It sounds pleasant because it stays in one key (D major). I believe, staying in one key is the most easy and acceptable way for one's listening ear.

[montydog]

All good advice. Music theory is important in writing songs but it's a mistake to let it stop you trying things which theoretically won't work.

The fundamental thing for me is to have a melody idea in my head first, which most often comes from having some lyrics to start with. Once you've got the beginning melody note just strum all the chords you know until you find one that best matches the mood or tone of the song - then you're off. That chord will be in a key from which you can build the rest of the chord progression for the song. I've found the best way to do that is just to try every chord in the key until you find one that best fits the melody note and mood of the song. If you can't find one, try chords outside the key.

One other thing I've found is that unless you have a trained voice, you will have a key which most easily matches your voice and which allows you to use your whole range without going out of tune or straining. Finding that key is vital to writing songs which sound good when you sing them.

Good luck, don't give up and it will come.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

The chart is misleading in calling the V chord major (it's dominant)

"Dominant" just means V (5th step) - like tonic means I and subdominant means IV - so the chart is quite correct. The chord on the dominant (V) degree is a major triad. (Eg, A is the "dominant" chord in key of D.).
When you add a 7th, then it becomes a "dominant 7th".
That's a unique chord type, of course: a major triad with a minor 7th. (The "tonic 7th" and "subdominant 7th" both have major 7ths, which is why you don't hear those terms used for chord types, because only the dominant 7th is unique.)

However...

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

in calling the VII chord what should be called the V7. The real VII chord is half-diminished (but can substitute for the V7).

That's quite correct. IMO, the site should have explained that.
It's true that the half-dim VII chord is hardly ever used, and the V7 is normally used instead (maybe in 1st inversion), but that's no excuse for putting wrong information on the chart.

It would have been better to omit the "VII" altogether and just head that column "V7".

(The page also goes on to make an error about minor keys. It talks about harmonic and melodic minor as "keys"...)

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

I know that's more than you understand at this point, but beware of oversimplified charts that purport to tell you all you need to know on one page.

Agreed.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Ruark

That's a GREAT chart. "This Old Guitar" is obviously in the key of A.

Look again. (It's key of D, as mentioned above.)
You'll see the same 4 chords also occur in key of D.
Moreover, it has an A7, and you'll see that chart only shows that in key of D.
(As explained above, A7 is not the "VII" chord in D, it's the "V7" - the chart is wrong there; just change the "VII" column heading to "V7" and the chart is good.)
It's also true that most songs start on the key chord. Not ALL, mind, so take that as a hint, not a failsafe rule.
A better rule is that songs almost always end on the key chord.
Again there are rare exceptions, but the key chord is always the one that sounds like an ending. (Sometimes composers don't want their last chord to sound final, they want a kind of hanging, unfinished effect.)

If you play through "This Old Guitar" and try ending on any chord other than D, it won't sound finished. (A7 will be the least "final" sounding chord.)

IOW, the key of a song is always the chord that sounds like the key chord. You have to listen to determine it. Charts like that can be useful, but many songs break the "rules" and use other chords (from other keys); but the key sound is so strong that the sound of the key chord is not disturbed (even if its mood or feel might change).

However, knowing the key doesn't really matter than much. (If you play all the correct chords in "The Old Guitar", in the right order and in the right places, the song will sound right. Why would it matter if you thought the key was A and not D?)

What matters more is...

Originally Posted by Ruark

Now, I just need to learn which of those chords go with which notes in the melody, i.e. when and where to change chords. It appears that much of that decision is subjective, not a black-and-white rule.

There are guidelines, rather than rules. The only real rule is "if it sounds right, it IS right."

In fact, the phrase "common practices" is better than either "guidelines" or "rules".
IOW, the kinds of things most composers do, most of the time, are likely to be the things that sound best. That's why they do it, after all.
And it's a kind of vicious (or rather virtuous) circle, because we also like sounds that are familiar. So the more common certain practices are, the more we are likely to hear them as "natural" and "good". So composers will keep using them for that reason too. (Of course, "common" can end up as "predictable and boring", so there is always a balance to be struck.)


So - one of the most common practices - as mentioned - is that the stronger notes at any point in the melody are very likely to be in the chords. This means the longest notes, or the ones on the strong beats (1 and 3) or the ones most accented or repeated.

It's not rocket science! When writing a song, if you start from the chords, then the notes you'll want to sing are very likely to be chord tones. That's how you will sound "in tune", by matching your voice to one of the notes you can hear.
So when working vice versa - starting with a melody and trying to find chords - same principle applies: what chord(s) can you find that have those notes?
Not every note needs to be in the chords (otherwise you might have to change chord with every note!) - only the ones that sound most important.

Another good tip (if starting with a melody and adding chords) is don't change chords too much. Play the same chord until the melody really tells you you need a new one.
With some songs you can hang on one chord for 4 bars, or even 8 bars or more. (I'm thinking of Ballad of John and Yoko, where he sings over the same chord for 8 bars, but there are lots like that. There are even songs with only one chord the whole way through! Bo Diddley made a career out of that...)
With others, you might need to change chords every 2 beats (Eg Heart of Gold, and many many more).

Typically, songs that change chords regularly every 2 beats were probably written chords first. That's because, if you have no tune or lyrics yet, you naturally search for an interesting chord sequence; which means changing quite often. But if you already have a load of lyrics, and can maybe imagine a tune that you could sing them to, then the chords only have to support it, just carry it along. (Chords should never distract from the tune anyway.)

But normally I'd guess most songwriters work somewhere between the two: they'll have a vague idea for tune or lyrics (maybe just one phrase) they'll find 2 or 3 chords that fit, and then carry on with one or the other: letting chords inspire the next melodic phrase, or vice versa, letting the developing melody suggest chord moves.

Where the knowledge of "key" (as in that chart) helps is it gives you a limited set of chords to choose from, that will always "work". So the first chord you'll choose to start the song will probably be the key chord (I) - (even if it turns out not to be in the end, you can start with that assumption). So you can look up on the chart what other chords belong in that key - there are only 5 other common ones.
Many great songs are written with only 3 or 4 chords, so the 6 in one key (3 majors 3 minors) ought to be plenty.
It's only when you feel that there are points in the song where somehow none of those 6 sounds quite right... that's when you may need to draw on "chromatic" chords (from outside the key).

The best guide here is just to listen to as many songs as you can, and take a note of changes that catch your ear. You should hear things you like, and think "hey I could use that" - so you just need to find out what it is.

Remember that if music sounds good, it's not breaking any rules at all. If you think it is, you're just applying the wrong rules . It's actually following rules you just haven't heard about yet.

[Hotspur]

Originally Posted by JonPR

Another good tip (if starting with a melody and adding chords) is don't change chords too much. Play the same chord until the melody really tells you you need a new one. ng rules . It's actually following rules you just haven't heard about yet.

Another thing worth pointing out: just like you can vary your chords for emphasis, you can vary the rate of change of your chord for emphasis. The frequency with which you change chords is called the harmonic rhythm.

If you change chords every eight beats, then suddenly switch to changing every two, that will make the sound song faster and more energetic without changing the actual rhythm. It's more sophisticated than that, though, because any time you set a pattern and then change it, you call attention to the moment of change.

[Howard Klepper]

Originally Posted by JonPR

"Dominant" just means V (5th step) - like tonic means I and subdominant means IV - so the chart is quite correct.

That's one meaning of 'dominant.' Another is a chord containing the tritone and hence the tension which calls for another chord to follow. To simply call the V chord major along with the I and IV chords is "misleading" (not exactly wrong) because it fails to convey its harmonic function, and leads to false impressions such as that the John Denver song could be in the key of A. But sure, the triad is major. Thing is, the V chord is the first chord any beginner uses with a fourth tone added to the triad, and without calling it a different name from simply 'major,' there is no explanation given for why it is different, or what that extra tone is doing there.

[trabb]

Originally Posted by JonPR

So when working vice versa - starting with a melody and trying to find chords - same principle applies: what chord(s) can you find that have those notes?
Not every note needs to be in the chords (otherwise you might have to change chord with every note!) - only the ones that sound most important.

I'll preface this remark by saying that I don't compose my own music. However, something that really hammered home this idea to me was learning to play hymns on guitar. Many chord sheets for hymns actually will have you changing chords on every note; however, in most cases, the melody will work fine with whatever chord is the first chord of a given measure.

It might be worth messing around with something like this just to get a feel for how a melody can play around the chord even when it's using notes that aren't part of the chord itself.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Hotspur

Another thing worth pointing out: just like you can vary your chords for emphasis, you can vary the rate of change of your chord for emphasis. The frequency with which you change chords is called the harmonic rhythm.

Good point! There are too many songs around today where the writers seem to think the harmonic rhythm has to be constant. Chords change every 2 beats, or every bar, or every 2 bars. Boring...!

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

That's one meaning of 'dominant.' Another is a chord containing the tritone and hence the tension which calls for another chord to follow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominant_(music)

It's true that the word "dominant" on its own is a handy shorthand for "dominant 7th", but the difference needs to be clear from the context.
The V chord in a key is the dominant chord, by definition - because it's on the 5th step - with or without a 7th.
IMO it doesn't help to blur the meaning of a word unnecessarily.

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

To simply call the V chord major along with the I and IV chords is "misleading" (not exactly wrong) because it fails to convey its harmonic function

Not at all. A major triad on V has a dominant function, because it's on V. What "V" means (referring to a chord) is "dominant function".
Of course, we need to hear the other chords to hear that function.
If we hear the I and IV first, then we will hear the V chord as having a dominant function without it needing a 7th.

I think what you're getting at is that a major triad on its own has no dominant function - we can't tell what its function is, unless we hear some other chords, ideally ones that establish the key.
But when a major chord has a minor 7th (b7) added, then we can tell its function with no context, because it's forming a "dominant 7th" type: the kind of chord that only occurs on a V step (of major or harmonic minor).
And the tritone adds a significant tension, of course.

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

, and leads to false impressions such as that the John Denver song could be in the key of A.

That's a slightly different issue.
The set of chords D, A, Bm and F#m could all occur in the keys of D major or A major. Without any other information, we have no way of knowing which it is.
In fact, the song provides us with plenty of additional information:
1. the order of the chords (not conclusive)
2. the appearance of a G chord later (more conclusive)
3. the use of A7 rather than plain A (conclusive, unless it's a blues ).
4. (no doubt) the way the melody resolves (I haven't listened to the song, but this ought to provide extra confirmation).
All these things will combine to tell us the key is D, not A.
And it's an aural judgement more than a theoretical, text-book one. Ie, points 2 and 3 above (with the earlier 4 chords) point to a text-book key of D major, but the ears need to confirm it.

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

But sure, the triad is major. Thing is, the V chord is the first chord any beginner uses with a fourth tone added to the triad, and without calling it a different name from simply 'major,' there is no explanation given for why it is different, or what that extra tone is doing there.

Right - but there's an important distinction here between chord type, and chord function.
The triad types on the I, IV and V degrees are all "major". That's basic.
The functions - which describe how those chords behave in sequences, appearing to have different roles - are all different: tonic, subdominant and dominant. (They can perform those roles with no extra notes.)
As you say, the "dominant function" of the V chord can be (and often is) enhanced by adding a diatonic 7th (7th note up the scale from the root) - forming the famous "dominant 7th" chord type. It's a very useful tension to help lead more strongly to the tonic chord.

I do think it's important to preserve those distinctions. "Dominant" is not a chord type. "Dominant 7th" is. "Dominant" just means V.
We can use "dominant" on its own to refer to a dom7 chord - just as we might commonly use "diminished" to refer to a dim7 chord (not just the triad) - but the context needs to make the usage clear, unless it's just experienced guys like us chatting .

I know I'm being pedantic here (you and I both understand the same things), but loose vocabulary leads to confusion for people new to theory. (I see too many people referring to a minor 7th interval - or the b7 note alone - as a "dominant 7th", which is meaningless.)

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by trabb

I'll preface this remark by saying that I don't compose my own music. However, something that really hammered home this idea to me was learning to play hymns on guitar. Many chord sheets for hymns actually will have you changing chords on every note;

IMO, this derives from classical practice - or even pre-classical practice - of harmonising a melody with other melodies.

Chords - as distinct blocks of harmony lasting for more than one melody note - are a relatively recent invention in the history of music. Harmony began as separate lines of melody ("voices") moving together - counterpoint - and only later solidified into "chords".
Advanced harmonisation (in jazz too) will often revert to that practice.

Of course, the practice of strumming guitar (as opposed to classical fingerstyle) obviously favours fixed block chords that last for at least a couple of beats, ideally longer. More fluid harmony is usually less of a problem for keyboard players (the traditional hymn accompanists!).

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Ruark

I know quite a few chords for strumming and fingerpicking from playing , but I don't really understand how those chords are selected. Once I have the words and melody, how do I work out the chords for the guitar part

Speaking as someone who has for a long time slowly been learning how theory applies to guitar and songwriting. I think the more you know the better. And if you already have a melody as many have said that would suggest an number possible chords.

That said.
Remember that there are some completely different equally effective approaches to songwriting. For example Denver may have written lyrics and developed the melody after having already worked out the chord progression. Often the melody can be developed after or with the chord progression by using the feeling suggested within the chords.

Something to try might be to just start strumming and changing chords (noodle- ing) until you have something interesting then start humming a melody then start trying to apply lyrics

[Bern]

Originally Posted by JonPR

IMO, this derives from classical practice - or even pre-classical practice - of harmonising a melody with other melodies.

Chords - as distinct blocks of harmony lasting for more than one melody note - are a relatively recent invention in the history of music. Harmony began as separate lines of melody ("voices") moving together - counterpoint - and only later solidified into "chords".
Advanced harmonisation (in jazz too) will often revert to that practice.

Of course, the practice of strumming guitar (as opposed to classical fingerstyle) obviously favours fixed block chords that last for at least a couple of beats, ideally longer. More fluid harmony is usually less of a problem for keyboard players (the traditional hymn accompanists!).

Actually, the harmonization of a given melody is quite interesting and not uncommon for Jazz players. Wes Montgomery and Joe Pass, to name two, had used this kind of playing quite a bit.