Play the G Chord Without Muting the A String

kats45 · #1 06-26-2012, 07:34 PM

Hello All,

I've been playing a long time but have moved from mostly strumming to mostly fingerstyle. For some strange reason I'm having trouble not muting the A string when I play an open G chord. I know it sounds silly and elementary, but I've dropped my wrist and my fingers are curved and I still have the trouble. If I play a Gadd2 it's worse.

What are your suggestions? or experience?

Thank you.

saxonblue · #2 06-26-2012, 08:04 PM

So I'm thinking you've got your middle finger on 3rd fret of low E string, your index finger on the 2nd fret A string but the flesh of the middle finger is still fouling the A string, right?

It's probably one of those chords you really need to make sure your thumb is resting on the centreline of the neck & not above it thereby allowing your fretting fingers to curve better.

If you're struggling to do that maybe go completely the other way & fret the 3rd fret, low E with your thumb instead but that may flatten your fingers to the point you start muting the D string with your index finger now.

kats45 · #3 06-26-2012, 08:24 PM

I'm actually fretting the low E string with my ring finger, playing the G in the old fashioned way. I can play G the modern way too, but I run into the same problem. The real problem comes in when I drop the middle finger to play the A note (the old G), or if I drop the index finger to play the A. The modern G to a G2 seems a bit more workable, but the flesh of my finger still wants to bump into that string.

ljguitar · #4 06-26-2012, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kats45

Hello All,

I've been playing a long time but have moved from mostly strumming to mostly fingerstyle. For some strange reason I'm having trouble not muting the A string when I play an open G chord. I know it sounds silly and elementary, but I've dropped my wrist and my fingers are curved and I still have the trouble. If I play a Gadd2 it's worse.

What are your suggestions? or experience?

Thank you.

Hi Kats...

On a normal 3 finger G, muting the A string makes it a more balanced chord anyway. I teach G as a two finger chord (Pinky on 1st string Ring on 6th with the ring finger muting the A while pressing the 6th). I also teach it as a 4 finger and amended 4 (with 3) as well.

Your issue likely has to do with the elevation of the neck (or lack of it) and the angle your hand having to reach around the neck and address the strings. Without watching you play, it's nearly impossible for this teacher to attempt a diagnosis.

kats45 · #5 06-26-2012, 08:45 PM

I'll have to see if I can get a better neck elevation, as I'm sure that will help. Stay tuned...

The other thing is that I need the 5th string to ring clear b/c of playing fingerstyle and alternating the bass.

ljguitar · #6 06-26-2012, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kats45

I'll have to see if I can get a better neck elevation, as I'm sure that will help. Stay tuned...

The other thing is that I need the 5th string to ring clear b/c of playing fingerstyle and alternating the bass.

Hi Kats...

The most common alternate bass note for the G major chord is the open D string (4th string) not the ''B'' note on the A string. And that is true no matter which way the G is fingered (except for an E chord shaped barre chord on the 3rd fret)

JonPR · #7 06-27-2012, 01:23 AM

I agree with lj - when strumming, you don't need the 5th string in the chord, if you have the B as open 2nd string.
Whether the 5th is muted or played makes hardly any difference to the sound, and it's arguably better (as lj says) if it is muted.

A more important difference would come if you played the 4-finger G with a D on 2nd string:

-3-
-3-
-0-
-0-
-2-
-3-

In that case, if you mute the 5th, then it's a G power chord, not a triad. Of course that may not matter (and may still sound better!) but it's good to be aware of the difference.

Of course, if you're playing fingerstyle - or flat-picking bass note runs - then you may need the 5th string B as a single note (although lj is right 6th and 4th is much more common). So you need to be technically capable of playing it, even if you choose not to at other times.

JonPR · #8 06-27-2012, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kats45

I'll have to see if I can get a better neck elevation, as I'm sure that will help. Stay tuned...

Yes, try raising the neck, putting your thumb lower on the back, and reaching the fingers around more, so they arch higher over the strings.

Rotating the hand a little can sometimes help - ie, while keeping the thumb in place on back of the neck, pivoting on that and moving the thumb-side of the hand up towards the headstock (I wouldn't recommend this normally).

But if you (maybe) have small hands and a classical neck (I mean the guitar not yourself, haha), this chord is always going to be a problem.

Bern · #9 06-27-2012, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Kats...

On a normal 3 finger G, muting the A string makes it a more balanced chord anyway. I teach G as a two finger chord (Pinky on 1st string Ring on 6th with the ring finger muting the A while pressing the 6th). I also teach it as a 4 finger and amended 4 (with 3) as well.

Your issue likely has to do with the elevation of the neck (or lack of it) and the angle your hand having to reach around the neck and address the strings. Without watching you play, it's nearly impossible for this teacher to attempt a diagnosis.

Although, I agree that the B on the A string is not necessary, however, why is it that not playing the B is being encouraged ? Even in strumming the B plays a vital role in hammer-ons or bass line runs into the C chord which was used by a lot folk players such as Donovan, etc.
It's common elementary guitar playing, IMO.

jwing · #10 06-27-2012, 07:21 AM

Before you work the guitar neck/fretting hand positioning, make sure that your shoulder, neck, and back are in good alignment; your shoulder is relaxed and not pulled up toward your neck; the line across the top of your shoulders is parallel to the floor; you are not hunched over. If you have tension in your shoulder, your elbow is forced up and out and your wrist and hand must create a compensating angle which in turn causes fingering problems. Your upper arm should hang straight down; your elbow should be close to the side of your torso.

At this point, if you flex your biceps, your forearm should come up pointing straight foreward. Angle the guitar's neck so that it meets your hand. Place a capo so that you can play your open G where your hand meets the neck, let's say that's on the fifth fret. Work out your hand mechanics there, and when you are stisfied that you can play the way you want to at the fifth fret, move the capo to the fourth fret and repeat the whole body posture/relaxing exercise.

Repeat as necessary, eventually moving the capo down to third, second and first frets, then finally no capo at all. Frequently stop to check your posture/relaxation.

This method may take weeks, but it will help you in many more ways than just being able to play a clean open G chord.

kats45 · #11 06-27-2012, 07:37 AM

jwing,

This is great advice. I'm going to copy and paste so I can have it in front of me.

To the others, my question about the B note. You said typically the alternate bass note is D. I thought it was normally the A, the fifth in the chord. With the A chord, add E; D add A; etc. If it's fourth then it would be: A add D; D add G; E add A. It starts to not make sense when you go to D from A, as D is not even in the chord.

What if it just sounds good?

ljguitar · #12 06-27-2012, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kats45

jwing,

This is great advice. I'm going to copy and paste so I can have it in front of me.

To the others, my question about the B note. You said typically the alternate bass note is D. I thought it was normally the A, the fifth in the chord. With the A chord, add E; D add A; etc. If it's fourth then it would be: A add D; D add G; E add A. It starts to not make sense when you go to D from A, as D is not even in the chord.

What if it just sounds good?

Hi Kats...
The root is scale degree 1 and the alternating bass is usually scale degree 5. Scale degree 5 is located a fifth above the root, or a fourth below the root. It's still the same note, but an octave apart...and it's still scale degree 5.

For the chord G, scale degree 5 is D
For the chord C, scale degree 5 is G
For the chord D, scale degree 5 is A
For the chord E, scale degree 5 is B
For the chord A, scale degree 5 is E

You need to figure out the alternating bass by the chord you play, not the key you are in.

Hope this helps.

JonPR · #13 06-27-2012, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kats45

jwing,

This is great advice.

It is indeed. Let me add some similar tips. (I'm going to assume you are right-handed, playing the normal way.)

1. The left elbow should be 90 degrees or less.
2. As jwing says, the ideal approach to the neck to begin with is around 5th fret, or a little higher.
3. In this position, the forearm should be at 90 degrees to the neck. That means you can reach the whole neck from that (roughly) central point with the least effort or arm movement.
4. If you position your guitar on left leg (in classical style), position your torso facing forward along the line of your thigh. This means your right leg is tucked away, down and to the side a little. The guitar body should be close to the top of the thigh, almost flat against your body, and the neck will be up at around 45 degrees, headstock roughly level with your head. (The guitar is supported by your legs and right arm, not the left arm - it should stay in position without the left hand touching it.)
5. If you position the guitar on right leg, the neck angle will naturally be lower, but let the position be governed by that angle of your left arm. The approach to the neck and everything should identical to how it would be on left leg. You may find you need to move the guitar neck forward a little (at least if you need to reach top frets), but generally keep the neck back, and a little above the horizontal. (Don't let the elbow straighten and push the neck forward.)
6. When you barre the neck with index finger, around frets 5-7, your finger should be comfortably parallel to the frets, and pointing right at your eye, or forehead; not lower, and not to one side. The fingertip will be maybe 9-10 inches from your nose.
7. The thumb should be on the back of the neck opposing the index finger. IOW, the thumb points upwards, maybe a little to the left of your sight line. The hand position should feel relaxed, the wrist fairly straight, the bend of the index primarily at the knuckle. (With a barre keep the index straight - a small bend at the first joint can help, but beginners typically bend too much there.)
8. With any chord shape, there should be air between the bottom edge of the neck and your palm. The only parts of the hand touching the guitar (normally) should be fingertips and pad of thumb. (There are plenty of exceptions to this, esp with certain rock techniques, but again this is about establishing the optimum start position.)
9. With chords that involve any stretching - btw - position the thumb more centrally, so it supports all fingertips equally. If stretching the pinky is a problem, try placing the pinky first, get that working, and then stretch the index back.

This all sounds a little stiff and prescriptive, but it's about checking an optimum starting position, to give your fret hand the best chance of holding down any string/fret or chord, with the least effort. You can and should loosen up from this, because even the best position is not one you should get stiffly fixed in.

Lastly, make sure those left-hand fingernails are as short as it's possible to get them! Don't leave even a mm of white showing. If you can touch the wood of the fretboard with your fingernails when fretting, they're too long.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kats45

To the others, my question about the B note. You said typically the alternate bass note is D. I thought it was normally the A, the fifth in the chord. With the A chord, add E; D add A; etc. If it's fourth then it would be: A add D; D add G; E add A. It starts to not make sense when you go to D from A, as D is not even in the chord.

What if it just sounds good?

If it sounds good, it's right!

But common practice is to use the 5th of the chord as the preferred alternate bass note (after the root), with the 3rd as a fairly common 2nd choice.

It's simply about counting 5 letters up from the root (which is "1"). You have all the others right, but for G the 5th is D - GABCD (and the 3rd is B).
(I think you might have been confused about a comment about string numbers, D being "4th string"?)

The low B (in a G chord) would commonly be used to lead to C (on a C chord), or down to A (on an Am or D), so it's important to be able to play it cleanly on those occasions. But it's not common as a repeated bass note, and can be muted when strumming (if you like).

rick-slo · #14 06-27-2012, 09:19 AM

It should not be a problem. Thumb behind the neck for best finger arches and then just hang the finger fretting the low E string half way off the fret board.

kats45 · #15 06-27-2012, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-slo

It should not be a problem. Thumb behind the neck for best finger arches and then just hang the finger fretting the low E string half way off the fret board.

I do that and I still get interference from the flesh of my thumb, and I don't have fat fingers. It helps though if I move my finger up higher on the string, almost off the fretboard, but I'm concerned I may be changing the note in my attempt to avoid flesh contact with the 5th string.